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Parking on Normandie


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What you said aren’t reductions in benefits they are a reduction in how strict it is to join, I wasn’t aware of an actual reduction in benefits, I think CV offers great value for money and at the end of the day BF have to make a profit.

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Ultimately Club Voyage is a discount scheme. It doesn't make you more important because you own additional properties or make you exempt from certain conditions.

What you said aren’t reductions in benefits they are a reduction in how strict it is to join, I wasn’t aware of an actual reduction in benefits, I think CV offers great value for money and at the end

Gourvennec expanded his remit because he was a businessman..He had ships built the like Bretagne, Barfleur and Normandie and he was the boss when they started the catchy slogan `Brittany Ferries The H

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Gourvennec expanded his remit because he was a businessman..He had ships built the like Bretagne, Barfleur and Normandie and he was the boss when they started the catchy slogan `Brittany Ferries The Holiday Fleet`..They certainly were and still are.

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39 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

I think CV offers great value for money and at the end of the day BF have to make a profit.

I generally get more than the annual subscription as a reduction on each crossing, however BF are a Business and we are Customers.

BF can price it's crossings as it wishes and we can decide whether to purchase the crossings - we have no right to expect anything else.

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1 hour ago, alleeganger10 said:

Gourvennec ‘s dream was not a holiday company it was a means to get his goods to the market in good shape. Holidays are and were a secondary operation, opening up Caen a Normandie initiative ?   changed all that, but still the lorry decks is full of fruit from Spain. And lorry cabs going to Leyland.

I'm not a frequent BF traveller, only making a couple of crossings a year. But, I would suggest that other operators pay way more attention to freight than BF, so I'd disagree with you there on where their attention is. The relatively small amounts of freight I've seen at Plymouth Roscoff and St Malo also suggests their priorities lie elsewhere.

I'm a frequent user of P & O north sea, both routes always have plenty of freight on (including many Leyland cabs on the Zeebrugge route), the proportion of freight to cars is high, admittedly the boats have more capacity for freight and vehicles than the Caen boats. A look at the twin height freight decks on the Rotterdam boats really gives you some perspective on their size, especially in comparison to some of the BF fleet. BF to me has always been about holidays.

They may have started out with freight in mind, but they've certainly changed track over the years.  

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2 hours ago, alleeganger10 said:

Apologies for taking this off the original topic ....

Actually over time club voyage benefits are/have been reducing, it used to be that an acte de vente copy was required to join, ( then the property owners club). When we actually got ours we found that it wasn’t needed after all, even  though it was still called the property owners club. That had not been the case for some time,  No CV discount is offered on a dog cabin for instance. The actual real cost of membership will soon double as those who were associate members now have to pay the full price. Apparently due European data protection rules, Strange how in the U.K. exactly the same reason given for not being able to see my smart meter data until almost a week has elapsed , yet in France data is available daily. Go figure and another subject, actually Data protection is just a jolly good BF excuse to make more money. 

In the event of Brexit, goods which currently travel on the land bridge to Ireland are going to go direct, that’s why the I in BAI is suddenly so important. It’s just simpler from a paperwork point of view, you don’t need the export department of old to tick the boxes. 

Gourvennec ‘s dream was not a holiday company it was a means to get his goods to the market in good shape. Holidays are and were a secondary operation, opening up Caen a Normandie initiative ?   changed all that, but still the lorry decks is full of fruit from Spain. And lorry cabs going to Leyland.

 

 

Ultimately Club Voyage is a discount scheme. It doesn't make you more important because you own additional properties or make you exempt from certain conditions.

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4 hours ago, alleeganger10 said:

In the event of Brexit, goods which currently travel on the land bridge to Ireland are going to go direct, that’s why the I in BAI is suddenly so important.

Both Stena and Irish ferries are currently in the process of expanding their Dublin - UK operations, they're not slackening them, you know of course of the E-Flexer design and the behemoth Irish Ferries are to have built to serve Holyhead? 

The increase in sailings direct to Spain is an EU initiative and has nothing to do with Brexit and is the reason why BF are investing so heavily in three larger ships to sail to both Santander & Bilbao and why Balearia will be sailing from Gijon to St Nazaire within a year. 

They want it off French roads due to emissions, security and highway repair costs. In the past Northern Spain didn't have the port or rail infrastructure to cope with it, the EU is spending billions changing that.

 

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On our last few trips to France we have sailed overnight to Ouistreham and always seem to end up on Normandie. They definitely pack the cars in tightly. On one crossing we returned to the car in the morning to find that the car behind me was parked almost against my back bumper which meant my highmount bike carrier was actually over their bonnet.

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Back to parking issues, one way I have tried to limit threats from the paintwork scratchers with their bags and coats is to arrive on ship in a filthy car.... it tends to focus people’s minds not to get themselves all mucky... they thus do not see my car as a convenient resting post or steadying mechanism.... 

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5 hours ago, 5_ShortBlasts said:

Back to parking issues, one way I have tried to limit threats from the paintwork scratchers with their bags and coats is to arrive on ship in a filthy car.... it tends to focus people’s minds not to get themselves all mucky... they thus do not see my car as a convenient resting post or steadying mechanism.... 

I'm heading down to Ouistreham tonight to be squeezed on Normandie - I'll maybe try some off-roading before I embark to test your cunning plan 5 SB's.....9_9

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When we take the larger, almost 5-metre-long car, on the ferry it's always a struggle to get the Cabin-kids and everything we need out before someone is wedged in alongside us. The doors don't open that wide but if you have a bag in the rear footwell it's often difficult to pull it free. Since we are rarely in the UK for more than 5 days at a time we have now decided to take the smaller car for most trips (unless we need the 7 seats) as it has one distinct advantage. It's a Ford Tourneo Courier (which is a van converted into a car) and so has two rear sliding doors giving us plenty of space to get everything out and no risk of bumping another vehicle. The disavantage is that we can't leave anything we might need on board in the boot. The rear door has an exceptionally low loading sill due to its van DNA which is great for loading big, heavy items but means the door is enormous and opens from very low down on the bumper. If anyone is parked within a foot of me then it won't swing up without hitting them. Ed

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20 hours ago, elaine80 said:

On our last few trips to France we have sailed overnight to Ouistreham and always seem to end up on Normandie. They definitely pack the cars in tightly. On one crossing we returned to the car in the morning to find that the car behind me was parked almost against my back bumper which meant my highmount bike carrier was actually over their bonnet.

It's the height that gets me sometimes - tunnel and ferry. Paint chips on the last car bore testament to that (and a cheeky fill in ten minutes before it got returned to the leasing company saved a few quid in charges)

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I've posted pics before showing blue foam wedges between our van and a caravan, we've also had wing mirrors scratching the non glass windows which is expensive to sort. I/we always retract or manually pull in our mirrors as a matter of course now.

Both incidents occurred aboard Normandie. Does anyone know if they differ to Bretagne or Barfleur as you don't tend to hear much about the pair of them?

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5 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

When we take the larger, almost 5-metre-long car, on the ferry it's always a struggle to get the Cabin-kids and everything we need out before someone is wedged in alongside us. The doors don't open that wide but if you have a bag in the rear footwell it's often difficult to pull it free. Since we are rarely in the UK for more than 5 days at a time we have now decided to take the smaller car for most trips (unless we need the 7 seats) as it has one distinct advantage. It's a Ford Tourneo Courier (which is a van converted into a car) and so has two rear sliding doors giving us plenty of space to get everything out and no risk of bumping another vehicle. The disavantage is that we can't leave anything we might need on board in the boot. The rear door has an exceptionally low loading sill due to its van DNA which is great for loading big, heavy items but means the door is enormous and opens from very low down on the bumper. If anyone is parked within a foot of me then it won't swing up without hitting them. Ed

I drive a Vauxhall Zafira B which is based on the Astra floorplan but has van-like tendencies in some of its dimensions (the boot lid is huge). We learned many years ago to travel light in what we remove from the car on board a ship (I hit the rear spoiler of my Ford Escort off the bulkhead of one of the Superfast ships on Rosyth-Zeebrugge in 2004 trying to remove a buggy). We always have bikes on the back so the boot is closed in Glasgow and doesn't get opened until we reach The Vendee. The Zafira was bought for its boot capacity rather than the passenger capacity (it avoids the need for a roof box).

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Haha Fine Whine!  Tbh I am not talking mud everywhere. It is just I used to take a chip off the old man who always washed his car before we went on a road trip.  I just don’t bother now. Merely the road grim/film is enough to make people breath in as they can see it up the doors and wings.  And yeh if some do lean on it and get marked, that is a lesson for them next time! 

It may even cause people to re-route around another car when they see the option in front of them 😉 

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The off-road option didn’t seem quite so appealing at night so I just sat in the queue and waited. I ended up on the mezzanine deck port side (as did most cars), loads of room to manoeuvre in and out. (See photo)

To be fair the loading crew do try to alleviate the problem on busy sailings. If there are potentially 4 car lanes then they park 1 and 3 first, allowing those occupants to exit their vehicles, lanes 2 and 4 a few minutes later which tends to work well. What’s worse is the freight lanes, often less than 12 inches between units and as drivers can be, shall we say rather on the portly side, they have to get bodies into all sorts of odd configurations to escape their cabs!

Chris

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12 hours ago, jonno said:

I've posted pics before showing blue foam wedges between our van and a caravan, we've also had wing mirrors scratching the non glass windows which is expensive to sort. I/we always retract or manually pull in our mirrors as a matter of course now.

Both incidents occurred aboard Normandie. Does anyone know if they differ to Bretagne or Barfleur as you don't tend to hear much about the pair of them?

I think you’ll find Bretagne can be an equally tight squeeze on most sailing but as customers love her and the route so much they tend not to complain - and the early evening departure/not so early morning arrival compared to the Caen route means they aren’t as bolshy!

As for Barfleur, well there’s generally only 1 line of cars at the best of times so it’s not an issue....:ph34r:

In all fairness I was on her last weekend and the loading was good with plenty of cars, but as she’s operating with a much lower capacity most of the year space is rarely an issue.

Chris

 

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In many ways it why the likes of Normandie & Bretagne on BF's most popular routes need replacing. They may well be perfectly serviceable but the needs and demands of both passengers and business alike have moved ahead of what they offer.

Both of these vessels catered for our needs of 25 - 30 years ago with internal public spaces and vehicle decks which reflect the era. it's not so much about capacity but more an issue of access.

Back in '92 Normandie was groundbreaking in many ways. Her twin loading vehicle decks offered customers the type of loading and convenience only previously enjoyed by hauliers using specialised sea transport. Above these decks she was every bit as much of a floating hotel as the AA 5 star rated Bretagne or the benchmark Baltic ferries which offered a cruise like experience for the cost of a ferry passage. Nearly 30 years ago she surpassed expectation.

In 2002 along comes Mont St Michel. 12 metres longer &  nearly 3 metres wider together with higher vehicle decks all reflecting the increased number of passenger vehicles and the new larger HGV's now with triple axles and 40ft trailers. Above all this she again offered cruise like accommodation & guest services. What is significant is that even after just 10 years Normandie was beginning to show her limitations, consumer needs below her hotel like services had moved on.

Now in 2019 Normandie has in many ways out stayed her welcome on BF's busiest and most demanding route and again it's her vehicle decks which let her down, the curse of so many beautifully built ferries over the years - VDL, the Olau twins, PoB and possibly the thinking behind I.F's decision to move on Oscar Wilde.

Honfleur will once again reflect the increased demands placed on a ferry operators vehicle capacity, 14 metres longer and 3 metres wider than MSM. 

The FSG new build will be 26 metres longer and 5 metres wider than Normandie in order to cope with the size of early 21st century passenger & freight vehicles.

 

 

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So the extra width on Honfleur will be taken up with wider vehicle lanes, or (as I suspect), an additional lane - making little difference to the problems/discomfort being reported.

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2 hours ago, nottingham said:

So the extra width on Honfleur will be taken up with wider vehicle lanes, or (as I suspect), an additional lane - making little difference to the problems/discomfort being reported.

 In combination Honfleur will carry roughly the same amount of vehicles if not fewer and also has a smaller passenger capacity, as I said, it's about access. All the cabins will be pet friendly too.

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3 minutes ago, jonno said:

 In combination Honfleur will carry roughly the same amount of vehicles if not fewer and also has a smaller passenger capacity, as I said, it's about access. All the cabins will be pet friendly too.

I quite agree with your first comment Jonno, Honfleur will have 50% more car deck space than Normandie and 500 fewer pax so apart from busy summer weekend sailings space shouldn’t be an issue. But all cabins pet friendly? Not so sure about that one .....😳

Chris

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2 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

I quite agree with your first comment Jonno, Honfleur will have 50% more car deck space than Normandie and 500 fewer pax so apart from busy summer weekend sailings space shouldn’t be an issue. But all cabins pet friendly? Not so sure about that one .....😳

Chris

This is from Ship Technology:

https://www.ship-technology.com/projects/honfleur-passenger-vehicle-ferry/

10th paragraph.

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Ok point taken but I would still query that fact as they can only take a limited number of pets per crossing (as I found out myself a couple of weeks ago), and certainly not 261 which is the number of cabins on Honfleur. Dog friendly to me spells no carpet, only a vinyl floor....yuk!

I’m back to France again on Wednesday, I’ll try to get clarification on that one.

Chris

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