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PIP Berth 2 Extension work

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If the E-Flexers are as nice onboard as the new Stena vessel appears to be, then perhaps two nights won't seem so bad. Ed. 

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It would be win-win for BF.  Passengers spending more money on board, no overnight berthing fee in Portsmouth, slower journey uses less fuel, and wouldn’t need to pay to ferry the crew over to Portsmouth.  On those grounds, there’s probably a case for charging customers less, not more.

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A 2-night out model would enable some more civilised timings.  Something like:

Day 1:  1700 arr Portsmouth, 2000 dep Portsmouth

Day 2 :  At sea

Day 3:  0800 arr Spain, 1330 dep Spain

Dinner on board after departure, quick breakfast before arrival.  Cherbourg call, if/when needed, would be 0400-0500 (at the latest - maybe earlier) on Day 2 without changing any of the other timings.  PIP2 would be available all morning, but cruise ships would need to clear off by 1630 every day.

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Berth 3 & 4 can currently serve ships up to 205m in length. At present there is no plan to increase this as part of the £33m investment, that's all allocated for berth 2, quay levelling, a new passenger walkway and Portico.

Time wise there is another school of thought.

When Pont Aven arrived many travellers felt they were being ripped off as the prices didn't change for the shortened crossing times. The attraction for many... and a previously advertised selling point for BF, was a proper mini cruise at the beginning and the end of their holiday. They wanted the direct route but not necessarily completed in the quickest time possible.

The extended journey time is one of the main attractions of the sailing to St Malo, Caen is only 2 hours away but many travellers enjoy the longer passage.

...and to be honest is an extra four hours the end of the world? 

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15 minutes ago, jonno said:

...and to be honest is an extra four hours the end of the world? 

To an extent that’s true Jonno - although I think there’s a limit.  St Malo taking 9 hours is indeed an attraction of the route, and I would not want to see it reduced to (say) 7, which was being talked about when there was a plan to move PA across.  But when the crossing already takes 24 hours, an extra 4 is very tedious.  Even the extra 4 hours to get to Portsmouth rather than Plymouth goes very slowly.

But the main issue, from the discussion above, is not the extra 4 hours per se, it’s the suitability if the departure and arrival times that they require.

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12 hours ago, nick hall said:

Would a two nighter south be less attractive to hauliers?

Indeed.  Almost certainly.  Which is probably why BDS has the schedule she does.  Time will tell, but I suspect the Flexers are more likely to have BDS-style schedules than PoB ones.  Either way, their use of berth 2 will be confined to first thing in the morning and the evening.  So allowing the cruise ships free access to berth 2 during the day is unlikely to conflict with ferry requirements for the berth - all BF operations outside the Flexers can happily be based from berths 3 and 4.

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Done a bit of digging. The E-Flexers have an LPP of 202m and will fit berths 3 & 4 in the same way WBY berths in Milford. The Hawseholes are at 195 & 200m.

I've also been told that the charter is for ten years.

 

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Thanks Jonno.  Might be that the berth 2 discussion is moot then, if they go for a PoB model.  If, on the other hand, they do go for the BDS model, with the Flexer staying on the berth overnight, then I suspect they will still want to use berth 2. 3 and 4 will need to be kept clear for the late evening services to Le Havre and Caen.

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6 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Thanks Jonno.  Might be that the berth 2 discussion is moot then, if they go for a PoB model.  If, on the other hand, they do go for the BDS model, with the Flexer staying on the berth overnight, then I suspect they will still want to use berth 2. 3 and 4 will need to be kept clear for the late evening services to Le Havre and Caen.

Berth 2 becomes another option with the extension so in effect all three could moor at the same time.

It also means that in effect they could get on the berth at Le Havre too, it's unfortunate that their overall length would stop the pilot boats getting out.

Edited by jonno
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41 minutes ago, jonno said:

Berth 2 becomes another option with the extension so in effect all three could moor at the same time.

Yes, well....that requirement would be for a very strange schedule (which not even I could dream up!) 🤣

41 minutes ago, jonno said:

It also means that in effect they could get on the berth at Le Havre too

Interesting.  Does that apply to Roscoff too?  If they can get into Le Havre and/or Roscoff then the possible schedules could have a number of different variations.

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52 minutes ago, jonno said:

It also means that in effect they could get on the berth at Le Havre too, it's unfortunate that their overall length would stop the pilot boats getting out.

They could just time the arrivals for when the pilots are on strike. Ed. 

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Quote

They could just time the arrivals for when the pilots are on strike.

Otherwise known as 'turn up and not go'......

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1 hour ago, Gareth said:

Interesting.  Does that apply to Roscoff too?  If they can get into Le Havre and/or Roscoff then the possible schedules could have a number of different variations.

Depends on bollard location. Linkspan to the end of the jetty is 225m but currently the bollards end at 180m, the Cap ties up in a similar way to WBY in Wales.

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On 07/02/2020 at 09:36, David Williams said:

Attached is a link to the current cruise schedule, there are a number of 7am arrivals, however a number are later as well.

https://www.portsmouth-port.co.uk/cruises/schedule2020

This is not a full list, The Spirit of Adventure is to be officially named in Portsmouth in August  and there are a few more saga sailings not shown on that list there are negotiations underway to make Portsmouth Saga's home Port

https://www.cruisetradenews.com/saga-spirit-of-adventure-named-portsmouth/

Edited by Stefeni

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quote from the end of the article in The Portsmouth News from Gerald Vernon Jackson

The development comes as council officials look to strike a deal with Saga to become a base for its cruise ships.

Civic chiefs insist the move could ignite an economic boom, with the city welcoming thousands more visitors each year.

Portsmouth has already agreed an £18.5m expansion of the international port to transform it into a leading cruise terminal.

 

 

Edited by Stefeni

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The purpose of linking to the official list was to show the typical timings of cruise ships in port, I guess that if a deal is struck by Saga they will be added to the official list.

Edited by David Williams

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(Sticking this in here as not worth a thread by itself)

Just looking on AIS - Commodore Clipper is showing on Berth 1 (the high-speed one normally used by NEx), I didn't realise the berth could handle other vessels!

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Work is just about finished on Berth 2 at Portsmouth International Port, the team are waiting for the new fenders to arrive from China. Once installed, the berth will be ready to receive ships up to 255m in length.

 

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Lowered? Why lowered Tony?  Or does that refer to dredged depth?

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11 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Lowered? Why lowered Tony?  Or does that refer to dredged depth?

The original berth was lowered by 2.4m to enable loading/unloading to take place at dock level.

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2 minutes ago, TonyMWeaver said:

The original berth was lowered by 2.4m to enable loading/unloading to take place at dock level.

Confused if that does not mean dredged depth.  What does that mean exactly - they lowered the jetty?

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4 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Confused if that does not mean dredged depth.  What does that mean exactly - they lowered the jetty?

Yes, lowered the jetty.

This from Knights Brown:

"In this short video you can see that the design and construction of the levelling and extension of berth two at Portsmouth International Port is now all but complete, having got underway in November last year. The original berth has been lowered by 2.4m to enable loading/unloading to take place at dock level. In extending the berth by 40m we have added a new dolphin, with a carousel structure weighing in at about 60t, which enables the port to now receive ships up to 255m in length. Throughout operations and to achieve a tight deadline, we have worked on two fronts simultaneously. Marine-based operations took place from a spud leg barge using a 330t crawler crane fitted with the largest hydraulic pile driving hammer in the UK, with a drop weight of 20 tonnes, a 16 tonne shroud and a maximum impact weight of 300 tonnes, and a supply barge. From land we worked with 160t and 80t crawler cranes with a third, 80t crane barge providing lighter lifts. We have self-delivered this entire project with the expertise of our directly-employed workforce, and a terrific management team including Joe Morley and Riaan van Doorn, who have had the enthusiastic support of Anisa Koci throughout. Great effort everybody."

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3 minutes ago, Gareth said:

So...does that render it unusable by the ferries then?

Maybe not as I think it now corresponds to the height of berths 3 & 4.

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