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Please remember - this thread can get a bit heated at times... try to keep politics out of it, and be respectful to the views of others.

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It will be pasta and rice next, how have they got through the stockpiles from March?

We've a young crowd in here today!

Thanks for asking @jonno No change I’m afraid, felt a little better yesterday but a little worse today. Trying to rest as much as possible. Think the missus is on the mend though, she’s now

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21 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Maybe, but he must have a helluva strong wifi signal on his phone...

Bit of tin foil and I suspect no issue in receiving Sky One.

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So, let’s see where we are then.

The foreign holiday hordes have indulged their desperate need to escape the UK for the sunshine, mingling with like minded people from across the UK at the airport and sharing their exhalations on the flight out. During their ‘well earned’ break they have got up close and personal with their compatriots from the UK and probably with foreign nationals who have contributed their own versions of Covid to the general mix. On the homeward flight they have again shared their breathing with fellow passengers from all over the UK and again when queuing to get off the plane and proceed through immigration.

Once home they have shared their wonderful holiday experiences (and perhaps the virus) with their mates at raves and house parties plus of course their families in several households.

And now? Oh gosh, the Covid transmission rates are increasing exponentially.

Is it really a surprise?

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1 hour ago, cvabishop said:

So, let’s see where we are then.

 

The foreign holiday hordes have indulged their desperate need to escape the UK for the sunshine, mingling with like minded people from across the UK at the airport and sharing their exhalations on the flight out. During their ‘well earned’ break they have got up close and personal with their compatriots from the UK and probably with foreign nationals who have contributed their own versions of Covid to the general mix. On the homeward flight they have again shared their breathing with fellow passengers from all over the UK and again when queuing to get off the plane and proceed through immigration.

 

Once home they have shared their wonderful holiday experiences (and perhaps the virus) with their mates at raves and house parties plus of course their families in several households.

 

And now? Oh gosh, the Covid transmission rates are increasing exponentially.

 

Is it really a surprise?

 

I would contest that any increase in transmission has very little to do with overseas travel. At the same time as travel was allowed much of the UK was allowed out of lockdown. The numbers of people that travelled abroad are minimal compared to the numbers who, in no particular order, returned to work, returned to school, started going to the pub/restaurants, started visiting friends, going to parties, using buses/trains, going shopping, betting shops, going to hospital. 
I’m not suggesting air travel hasn’t increase infections but the numbers are really very small.

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I agree with Nick. There is no proof that foreign travel is a major cause of infection and if it was then there would be lockdowns on travel to & from countries, not just “advice”.  Irish medical “experts” tried to blame foreign travel some time ago until evidence showed it was responsible for less than 2% of infections and they haven't mentioned it since.

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9 hours ago, cvabishop said:

So, let’s see where we are then.

 

The foreign holiday hordes have indulged their desperate need to escape the UK for the sunshine, mingling with like minded people from across the UK at the airport and sharing their exhalations on the flight out. During their ‘well earned’ break they have got up close and personal with their compatriots from the UK and probably with foreign nationals who have contributed their own versions of Covid to the general mix. On the homeward flight they have again shared their breathing with fellow passengers from all over the UK and again when queuing to get off the plane and proceed through immigration.

 

Once home they have shared their wonderful holiday experiences (and perhaps the virus) with their mates at raves and house parties plus of course their families in several households.

 

And now? Oh gosh, the Covid transmission rates are increasing exponentially.

 

Is it really a surprise?

 

I thought you had agreed to give it a rest your fears and opinions are well known. Your somewhat selfish views have been aired times. We all know what they are. I ask this? What would you have done aged 20 to 40

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53 minutes ago, IanN said:

I thought you had agreed to give it a rest your fears and opinions are well known. Your somewhat selfish views have been aired times. We all know what they are. I ask this? What would you have done aged 20 to 40

I don’t call it selfish.  When I hear of todays young complaining about how their young lives are being ruined by not being able to go out and socialise as they normally would, they appear to be looking for someone to blame for their woes.  I heard one student on TV bleating about it yesterday.  My first thoughts were that at least all you are being ASKED to do is keep yourself safe and probably stay home and quit socialising for a while.  If this had been the 1930s/1940s highly likely you would have been TOLD to go to war and be separated and possibly killed to serve your country.  These bleating kids don’t know how lucky they are.  
 

Nowadays, so many of todays younger age groups take for granted their freedoms and have no idea of what it is like to have their freedoms curtailed.  Their answer is to carry on doing as they like or join protest groups opposed to what they are being asked to do.  In the days of the wars they would not have dared.

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From the banner at the top of the page:


Please remember - this thread can get a bit heated at times... try to keep politics out of it, and be respectful to the views of others

 

Colin is entitled to his view, and to express it.

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16 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Colin is entitled to his view, and to express it.

I totally agree and apologies if it was not respectful. My point not clearly expressed is that if it is repeated add infinitum  It will become a fact and that needs to be challenged. If It could be shown that foreign travel is seriously contributing to the spread then fair enough. I can find no firm data on this. I did find this,  (Travel restrictions per se would not be sufficient to achieve containment in a given geographical area, and their contribution to any policy of rapid containment is likely to be limited) This is an extract from a report by the WHO and should be treated as such i.e the whole report runs to many pages and this is just a couple of lines. 

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Thanks Ian.  Yes, it is a general forum malaise that there are a lot of views that are repeated ad infinitum.  I suspect we’re all guilty of it to one extent or another.  We should all try to avoid just repeating points we’ve already made if we don’t have anything new to add to them.  It’s a kind of “who shouts last wins” type of mindset 🤣.

(This is a general observation, not one directed at what Colin posted, which I happened to think was a well-written post that added to what he had posted previously).

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OK, here's a subject we haven't discussed recently. 

What's happening in China? I've heard nothing about the spread of the virus in the world's most populous nation for weeks, if not months, now. Why not? I'd like to imagine that a herd of wild, ravenous, pangolins have emerged from the forests and eaten all the infected people, thereby neatly completing the 'circle of life', but somehow I doubt it.

Ed. 

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28 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

OK, here's a subject we haven't discussed recently. 

What's happening in China? I've heard nothing about the spread of the virus in the world's most populous nation for weeks, if not months, now. Why not? I'd like to imagine that a herd of wild, ravenous, pangolins have emerged from the forests and eaten all the infected people, thereby neatly completing the 'circle of life', but somehow I doubt it.

Ed. 

China?

Nothing to see here, carry on.

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I agree with Nick. There is no proof that foreign travel is a major cause of infection

Well, the reason that the whole world is suffering from this pandemic which has spread to every continent and almost every country can be summed up in two words - foreign travel.

The current upsurge of infections in Europe correlates with the easing of restrictions which, among other things, enabled hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of holiday makers to criss cross Europe over the last couple of months or so.

The increase in Greece in particular is centered on the holiday hotspots to which foreign tourists flock (the Greeks vacation elsewhere).

I quite agree that foreign travel is not the only reason for the present upsurge in infections but I do think it is a significant factor.

I'm not sure why I am seen as being selfish, I've lost £700 in deposits from cancelled holidays this year but that's the way it goes. I know of two people who have died from the virus - one who picked it up in Spain.

I am old enough to remember rationing as a child, you were told what you could eat unless you grew it yourself!

I think one problem is that younger generations have had little historical education and many, if not most, simply don't read newspapers or watch TV news so they get a distorted and partial idea of what is actually happening which makes it hard to get a proper perspective (which is difficult enough as it is). Matt Hancock can plead as much as he likes for understanding but many are simply not listening.

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1 hour ago, Cabin-boy said:

OK, here's a subject we haven't discussed recently. 

What's happening in China? I've heard nothing about the spread of the virus in the world's most populous nation for weeks, if not months, now. Why not? I'd like to imagine that a herd of wild, ravenous, pangolins have emerged from the forests and eaten all the infected people, thereby neatly completing the 'circle of life', but somehow I doubt it.

Ed. 

I've been asking that for a while.  The only answers I have is that they still have it and just accept it, they've found a cure but not told anybody else or most likely they control the population that much that any outbreak is jumped on with complete local lockdown and no one complains, unlike here where people think it's their right to do as they want when they want, the Chinese don't have that.

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23 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Well, the reason that the whole world is suffering from this pandemic which has spread to every continent and almost every country can be summed up in two words - foreign travel.

The current upsurge of infections in Europe correlates with the easing of restrictions which, among other things, enabled hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of holiday makers to criss cross Europe over the last couple of months or so.

The increase in Greece in particular is centered on the holiday hotspots to which foreign tourists flock (the Greeks vacation elsewhere).

I quite agree that foreign travel is not the only reason for the present upsurge in infections but I do think it is a significant factor.

I'm not sure why I am seen as being selfish, I've lost £700 in deposits from cancelled holidays this year but that's the way it goes. I know of two people who have died from the virus - one who picked it up in Spain.

I am old enough to remember rationing as a child, you were told what you could eat unless you grew it yourself!

I think one problem is that younger generations have had little historical education and many, if not most, simply don't read newspapers or watch TV news so they get a distorted and partial idea of what is actually happening which makes it hard to get a proper perspective (which is difficult enough as it is). Matt Hancock can plead as much as he likes for understanding but many are simply not listening.

I will let you have the last word we are probably boring every body else

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2 hours ago, Khaines said:

I don’t call it selfish.  When I hear of todays young complaining about how their young lives are being ruined by not being able to go out and socialise as they normally would, they appear to be looking for someone to blame for their woes.  I heard one student on TV bleating about it yesterday.  My first thoughts were that at least all you are being ASKED to do is keep yourself safe and probably stay home and quit socialising for a while.  If this had been the 1930s/1940s highly likely you would have been TOLD to go to war and be separated and possibly killed to serve your country.  These bleating kids don’t know how lucky they are.  
 

Nowadays, so many of todays younger age groups take for granted their freedoms and have no idea of what it is like to have their freedoms curtailed.  Their answer is to carry on doing as they like or join protest groups opposed to what they are being asked to do.  In the days of the wars they would not have dared.

Thing is, if it was the 30's or 40's or let's take the flu pandemics of the 1950's & 1960's which killed millions here, everyone  just got on with life, no lockdowns, no quarantining. If there had been there'd be no flu vaccine today.

The London Smog of 1952 killed more 100,000 over a 5 day period when all the data was analysed. That was hardly reported on outside of the capitol.

Another comparison? Imagine the state the country would have been in during the 1940's if we were subject to the sensationalist drama queen news that we have to put up with today. 

My Gran had Spanish flu at 11 years old and Asian flu when she was 50 that infected my mum at 17 and her two younger brothers and went through my dads family - 11 kids and teenagers in a 3 bedroomed terrace in Old Swan, Liverpool.

No one died... My gran passed away peacefully in her own bed in 2014 aged 107 having grown up before penicillin, Ibuprofen & paracetamol.

In many ways ignorance can be bliss.

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In many ways ignorance can be bliss.

Very true if there is nothing you can practicallyy do about it but if it is possible to mitigate the situation and you don't then it can be costly.

The problem we have now is balancing the mitigation between health and the economy and there is no general consensus as to where that lies.

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According to the BBC website, Matt Hancock has not ruled out the option of telling students not to go home at Christmas to avoid the virus spreading among families. The last time he told students not to do something (attend parties/fresher's week etc) they didn't seem to take a blind bit of notice but presumably something has now changed.

I assume that next week he'll be telling mummy not to kiss Santa Clause under the mistletoe as he's not part of the support bubble. 

Ed

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