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Please remember - this thread can get a bit heated at times... try to keep politics out of it, and be respectful to the views of others.

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On 09/11/2020 at 12:01, Cabin-boy said:

I noticed the same here this morning. A lot of parents seemed to be dropping their kids off and probably then weighed up the options of doing two return trips in the day or heading to the office, despite dire warnings from the President and his minions to not do so, and decided 'Sod it! I'll go to my office'.

On the subject of President Plonker, he has today made a pilgrimage to the church where Charles de Gaulle is burried (the tomb being easily identifiable by the fact the lid is still proped up by his excessively long nose) to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his death. Another unnecessary trip, putting more people at risk of contact. If he won't do what he preaches then how on earth does he expect us, mere peasants, to do the same.

Ed

I am sorry but some of us have respect for our President.What you call him is offensive. 

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We've a young crowd in here today!

It will be pasta and rice next, how have they got through the stockpiles from March?

The Corona virus hit Roscoff overnight, several victims in a critical state.....🤪 Chris

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6 minutes ago, imprimerie said:

I am sorry but some of us have respect for our President.What you call him is offensive. 

With you there Imprimerie, even though we all enjoy some gentle mockery. Overall I think the government here has done not too badly. How do you reconcile a Senate voting against lock down measures and medics demanding them? How do you judge just how far you need to legislate to get people to understand the message, which has always been clear? Shops being closed is unfair they shout, when the whole idea is simply to restrict our unnecessary movements and contacts, thus helping to avoid an acceleration which would overwhelm hospitals.

Around St Malo we hardly noticed the first wave in our hospitals. Today we are over 75% ICU type beds occupied with Covid-19 patients and on a rising trajectory. Scheduled ops are already being postponed, which has a very detrimental effect on ongoing health.

Find thousands more beds, medics, machines overnight, or restrict our contacts. Only one is an option.

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53 minutes ago, Shipping Forecast said:

we are going to make an app for devices almost every single person has, and not know how it works properly and send confusing messages - who did they contract for this, the App Newbie Software Company with no people experience?

Was Chris Grayling involved ?

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39 minutes ago, imprimerie said:

I am sorry but some of us have respect for our President.What you call him is offensive. 

I was perfectly respectful up until he announced the second lockdown but once he started giving misleading figures about potential deaths without explaining his sources or the timescale involved then I'm afraid he lost my respect. He replaced a perfectly good Prime Minister with a buffoon who was supposed to get us out of this mess and he has proved a disaster. 

Ed. 

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12 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

I was perfectly respectful up until he announced the second lockdown but once he started giving misleading figures about potential deaths without explaining his sources or the timescale involved then I'm afraid he lost my respect. He replaced a perfectly good Prime Minister with a buffoon who was supposed to get us out of this mess and he has proved a disaster. 

Ed. 

Can't really agree with you, but we are in France, so a good old brawl is normal ... Castex v Philippe, sort of agree, but time will tell and context different. What timescale do you want to hear or believe. You might bas well invent your own for all the firm knowledge and experience available on this, such a huge range of "expert" opinions, and a frustrated, bored, worried population.

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16 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

I was perfectly respectful up until he announced the second lockdown but once he started giving misleading figures about potential deaths without explaining his sources or the timescale involved then I'm afraid he lost my respect. He replaced a perfectly good Prime Minister with a buffoon who was supposed to get us out of this mess and he has proved a disaster. 

Ed. 

Everyone 

 

17 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

I was perfectly respectful up until he announced the second lockdown but once he started giving misleading figures about potential deaths without explaining his sources or the timescale involved then I'm afraid he lost my respect. He replaced a perfectly good Prime Minister with a buffoon who was supposed to get us out of this mess and he has proved a disaster. 

Ed. 

Can't agree with you either.If you think our President is no good then find a more polite way of saying it. From my point of you I think he is doing a good job in difficult circumstances. Have you notlced that your Tax Habitation has finished as he had promised when he was elected.It is important to give those who live in the UK a balanced view of life in France.

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I do feel a lot of sympathy for the Politicians in this, Covid is more like fighting a war than running a Country so tactics have to be thought of and implemented quickly and a number of tactics will fail.

All Politicians are trying to do their best in difficult circumstances, it is a lot easier to be in opposition at this time than in Government.

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I quite agree that politicians are doing their very best - but is it enough?

Here in the UK we have a Government which has been chosen predominantly on the basis of loyalty to Boris Johnson's Brexit initiative. The result is that many of its members are mediocre at best and more effective talents have been banished to the back benches of Parliament. So there is a great deal of political expertise going totally unused. It's much more difficult to deal with a national emergency if you are relying on a second or third rate team no matter how well intentioned they are. Johnson himself is a 'clever' man but lacks judgement and the ability to get across critical detail and this impacts on his public credibility. He needs more 'heavyweights' in his cabinet who can properly command their briefs instead of deferring to No. 10.

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What I find offensive is a long list:

1 Being made to accept collective punishment for the inability of a small minority who believe the rules don't apply to them.

2 Having my freedom restricted due to the government losing control of the situation when they had plenty of both warning signs and time to implement a effective strategy.

3 Being forced to wear masks in oudoor areas when I am perfectly able to judge the risk myself.

4 Being lectured to on TV by an unelected nobody who proceeds to tell me what I can and can't buy in the shops.

5 Having to listen to ministers drone on day by day about how cases are rising without clear statistics being presented giving age, sex, ethnicity and geographic location so we can see for ourselves who is really responsible for the problem.

6 Having to accept that the government can effectively be balckmailed by the medical lobby to the detriment of the economy, social system and education.

7 Having to listen while Macron prances around the international stage pretending to be a statesman, waving his willy at Erdogan in the hope that it will persuade far-right voters to support him and not Le Pen at the next election.

And so on and so forth.

Don't forget also that Macron himself is currently championing freedom of expression and the right to characterise public and religious figures. 

As to the end of the 'taxe d'habitation' that has nothing to do with his management of the Covid crisis and is an election promise that he can't break now if he want the slightest chance in 2022. 

As to politicians doing their best, I think the jury is out on that one. They are certainly doing their best to avoid the potential of being sued by business leaders, the families of collateral Covid victims etc. 

They need to find a plan, stick with it to see the results and then decide how to proceed, not jump from one plan to another each week just because the hospitals put pressure on them. For years the unions have been lobbying for better pay for nurses care workers etc. Not more equipment, beds and medicines. If the economy colapses now who's going to fund the health service in the years to come. They need to step back from the brink and decide calmly how to manage the problem with no more knee-jerk reactions.

Look at Denmark which has just admitted that they had no legal right to cull 17 million mink and are now passing retroactive legislation. That's not how democracy works. You don't kill that many animals without knowing why. What happens if scientists discover a mutant Covid gene in ginger-haired people next week that has the potential to mutate and contaminate the rest of us? Will Nicola Sturgeon order the culling of half her population (and all her voters)? I think not. If they are out of their depth the politicians should admit to it, step down and let someone else try instead. 

Ed

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3 hours ago, cvabishop said:

I quite agree that politicians are doing their very best

God help us all if this is the politicians best.

The one thing very few of the Western politicians have done is cover themselves in glory during this situation. It has been a difficult time, but they have been shown to be wholly politicians not leaders in a time when clear leadership was needed. As it has gone on, their fiddling while Rome burned has made this ever more apparent.

To this end I have to agree with Ed. Not only from his list above but there are a whole load more questions especially to do with preparation for scenarios like this. History seems to have been all but forgotten, with pandemics from the dawn of time to now, someone should have been prepared somewhere. 

All politicians in the West, whatever their political colour are guilty of this lack of planning and cutting preparedness funding, and are as much to blame for the current shambles, the deaths, the economic hardship, long term health issues et al as much as anyone, probably even more so. For contrast look at the lauded Singapore, South Korea etc even Australia and New Zealand, but just because they had a serious scare with SARS 1 over a decade ago. Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson all in power since then.

The other thing that disappoints me more and more during this time is that questioning of anything decreed or the  official line seems to have become a thoughtcrime with doublethink becoming prevalent. It is everyone's privilege and responsibility in a democracy to ask questions but so many have abdicated this completely as it can be a bit difficult.

I am very lucky to work with many people from around the world including currently someone from Wuhan. From the horses mouth, in Wuhan life is back to relative normal with a few continuing measures (masks, some distancing etc), aided by virus tackling technology - disinfecting robots, health check booths etc. Although we may not agree with some of China's actions or methods, and certainly not their statistics; they have a very much can do attitude, rather than the wretched naval gazing and hand wringing that seems to be the case now especially in Europe (Weihai Shipyard vs FSG anyone?).

Even the BBC in August had a story on Wuhan returning to normal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53816511 with the usual cautionary tales to fit in with the political edicts over here.

But very few want to ask the true questions and even fewer are ready for the answers.

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11 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

What I find offensive is a long list:

1 Being made to accept collective punishment for the inability of a small minority who believe the rules don't apply to them.

2 Having my freedom restricted due to the government losing control of the situation when they had plenty of both warning signs and time to implement a effective strategy.

3 Being forced to wear masks in oudoor areas when I am perfectly able to judge the risk myself.

4 Being lectured to on TV by an unelected nobody who proceeds to tell me what I can and can't buy in the shops.

5 Having to listen to ministers drone on day by day about how cases are rising without clear statistics being presented giving age, sex, ethnicity and geographic location so we can see for ourselves who is really responsible for the problem.

6 Having to accept that the government can effectively be balckmailed by the medical lobby to the detriment of the economy, social system and education.

7 Having to listen while Macron prances around the international stage pretending to be a statesman, waving his willy at Erdogan in the hope that it will persuade far-right voters to support him and not Le Pen at the next election.

And so on and so forth.

Don't forget also that Macron himself is currently championing freedom of expression and the right to characterise public and religious figures. 

As to the end of the 'taxe d'habitation' that has nothing to do with his management of the Covid crisis and is an election promise that he can't break now if he want the slightest chance in 2022. 

As to politicians doing their best, I think the jury is out on that one. They are certainly doing their best to avoid the potential of being sued by business leaders, the families of collateral Covid victims etc. 

They need to find a plan, stick with it to see the results and then decide how to proceed, not jump from one plan to another each week just because the hospitals put pressure on them. For years the unions have been lobbying for better pay for nurses care workers etc. Not more equipment, beds and medicines. If the economy colapses now who's going to fund the health service in the years to come. They need to step back from the brink and decide calmly how to manage the problem with no more knee-jerk reactions.

Look at Denmark which has just admitted that they had no legal right to cull 17 million mink and are now passing retroactive legislation. That's not how democracy works. You don't kill that many animals without knowing why. What happens if scientists discover a mutant Covid gene in ginger-haired people next week that has the potential to mutate and contaminate the rest of us? Will Nicola Sturgeon order the culling of half her population (and all her voters)? I think not. If they are out of their depth the politicians should admit to it, step down and let someone else try instead. 

Ed

It seems to me that it's President Macron that is your problem and not Covid 19.A totally negative post without any solutions or alternatives.

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Message added by Jim, September 15

Please remember - this thread can get a bit heated at times... try to keep politics out of it, and be respectful to the views of others.

 

 

lol

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17 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Well that all seems very unsatisfactory. I can't see why you would not be wearing a mask unless within your house or private vehicle and you know those people you are with. If you keep your mask on when out in public at all times then there should be no risk of contamination - even if there is some doubt about their efficiency. Ed. 

Putting to one side that most masks are designed to reduce spread to others rather than prevent you getting the virus, that doesn't account for people picking up the virus via other parts of their body or belongings that they later touch

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15 hours ago, cvabishop said:

Here in the UK we have a Government which has been chosen predominantly on the basis of loyalty to Boris Johnson's Brexit initiative

And perhaps even worse, many of the contracts and private sector funding has gone the same way

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2 hours ago, imprimerie said:

It seems to me that it's President Macron that is your problem and not Covid 19.A totally negative post without any solutions or alternatives.

If you scroll back through the thread to perhaps mid to late September and read from there onwards you will see the first indications that things were going wrong within the university sector which then filtered into the wider population. Most people in the education system, and particularly higher-education, were trying to highlight the problem but the government was too focused on Marseille and Guyanese which at the time were getting out of control. They dropped the ball nationally and by the time they realised what was happening it was too late. The 'rentree' was badly managed because the students were left to do what students do - drink, party and swap bodily fluids - and this is the result. I think the UK has managed to keep numbers down reasonably well in the sector as they have confirned students to halls and not allowed them home. French students often study close to home and either live with their parents or travel back at weekends, thereby infecting younger siblings and their grandparents at lunch on Sundays. It was inevitable but no provision was made for that. When us teachers were reporting up to 30% absenteeism in our groups, the alarm bells should have been ringing. Why weren't they or why were they ignored? Because the government was, and still is, unable to grasp the bigger picture. They went for the 'whack a mole' strategy that Boris advocated in early summer when in fact they should have gassed the entire labour (which is apparently the collective noun for moles).

Ed

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12 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

If you scroll back through the thread to perhaps mid to late September and read from there onwards you will see the first indications that things were going wrong within the university sector which then filtered into the wider population. Most people in the education system, and particularly higher-education, were trying to highlight the problem but the government was too focused on Marseille and Guyanese which at the time were getting out of control. They dropped the ball nationally and by the time they realised what was happening it was too late. The 'rentree' was badly managed because the students were left to do what students do - drink, party and swap bodily fluids - and this is the result. I think the UK has managed to keep numbers down reasonably well in the sector as they have confirned students to halls and not allowed them home. French students often study close to home and either live with their parents or travel back at weekends, thereby infecting younger siblings and their grandparents at lunch on Sundays. It was inevitable but no provision was made for that. When us teachers were reporting up to 30% absenteeism in our groups, the alarm bells should have been ringing. Why weren't they or why were they ignored? Because the government was, and still is, unable to grasp the bigger picture. They went for the 'whack a mole' strategy that Boris advocated in early summer when in fact they should have gassed the entire labour (which is apparently the collective noun for moles).

Ed

That is how you see it and not how I see it.The government's side has not been put as well as solutions.Critic is all very well but give us reasonable alternatives and solutions.

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We are all entitled to our opinions. If I truly told you all what I think of Boris and his chums I would be banned immediately. So best we avoid polemic.

I don't much like the figures here, and MUCH worse in many other areas, but first signs that we may be peaking. Very informative site below. I have focused it on our département, but there is lots more.

https://covidtracker.fr/dashboard-departements/#Ille-et-Vilaine

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12 minutes ago, imprimerie said:

That is how you see it and not how I see it.The government's side has not been put as well as solutions.Critic is all very well but give us reasonable alternatives and solutions.

I gave what I thought was a reasonable alternative on the 31St October in this thread. Ed 

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It is interesting that the Countries that are better at getting their citizens to do what they are told or have given them no options have been better at reducing the virus.

We should all stop thinking of our rights and freedoms and start thinking of our responsibilities. These are not normal times.

Like a war, this will end at some point and we must reduce the number of casualties before we get there. If the Allied Command had every decision and failure securitised by armchair warriors they would not have been able to take the actions needed as circumstances changed.

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1 hour ago, VikingVoyager said:

Putting to one side that most masks are designed to reduce spread to others rather than prevent you getting the virus, that doesn't account for people picking up the virus via other parts of their body or belongings that they later touch

This is true but being a respiratory disease the main port of entry is the respiratory system. Low probability infection entry include linked bodily systems such as through tear ducts (which drain into the respiratory system). Glasses wearers have one up here. Hand to mouth via contaminated surfaces transmission has a very low probability in comparison to close contact in unventilated spaces.

To protect properly, everyone would need to practice aseptic technique, and since even the medical community have issues with doing this correctly (it is very hard) then most of the rest of population have no hope. As an example, the biggest non aerosol vector is the mobile phone, as almost everyone touches it outside, washes or sanitises their hands, and then pick up the still potentially contaminated phone. Maybe the solution is to accelerate development of augmentation like Neuralink and have the phone / internet embedded in your brain.

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6 minutes ago, Shipping Forecast said:

To protect properly, everyone would need to practice aseptic technique, and since even the medical community have issues with doing this correctly (it is very hard)

True. Which, I guess, is why the tracing app (and standing advice) makes no allowance for mask wearing

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1 hour ago, VikingVoyager said:

And perhaps even worse, many of the contracts and private sector funding has gone the same way

Was ever so, cronyism is alive and well under all political systems and political parties. Those who think 'their party' doesn't do it are seriously deluded. In Europe the gravy train, pork barrel or whatever term you want to use, is more subtle than the blatant cronyism / nepotism of Trump, who you could say is more honest with this form of favouritism.

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