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Please remember - this thread can get a bit heated at times... try to keep politics out of it, and be respectful to the views of others.

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9 minutes ago, nodwad said:

What now happens to the ferries,with Portsmouth coming under tier 4 do ferries get cancelled.it is going to be chaos for all travelers going away for Xmas.stay safe

Why the heck are lots of travellers planning on going away (on a ferry) for Christmas?  

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We've a young crowd in here today!

It will be pasta and rice next, how have they got through the stockpiles from March?

Thanks everyone! 5 hours in theatre, all done. They misrouted the catheter and can't get a new one in. Pray I manage to pee before 10pm or the stick a pronged tube through my stomach.

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24 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Why the heck are lots of travellers planning on going away (on a ferry) for Christmas?  

I meant flights and ferries,it is what people do at Xmas all over the world going to see families or going to holiday homes.i know people have there own views on travel at this moment but it does not stop if they want to.some of these flights and ferry crossing have been booked a while but the point I made was is the goverment going to stop anyone traveling to the ferry ports with port been in tier 4 areas?stay safe

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44 minutes ago, nodwad said:

What now happens to the ferries,with Portsmouth coming under tier 4 do ferries get cancelled.it is going to be chaos for all travelers going away for Xmas.stay safe

Sailings will continue, as freight still needs to be carried. The current guidance only restricts international travel if you live in a tier 4 area. 

No doubt further guidance will be issued by Gov.uk shortly. 

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20 minutes ago, Paully said:

Its not a mandatory ban for those outside tier 4. Merely says inadvisable. I`m sure travellers will make their own minds up.

Actually it will be the French government which will be the ones to make their mind up about the arrival of UK visitors. 

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Yes, unless you really, really need to, don't get on a ferry until things settle down. A lot of the agonizing is because people want to travel abroad rather than they actually have to. This is what causes all the complications about testing etc. etc.

Leave it for a month or so and things should be clearer with the implications of Brexit factored in as well. Is it such a hardship to remain at home?

In the current situation there are more pressing things to worry about. I have noticed this on other forums that people get worked up about things that really don't matter much in the general scheme of things. They tend to focus on petty grievances which do not really recognise the overall situation.

I'd love to go away on holiday soon but the reality is that the circumstancesare really not very favourable and unlikely to improve in the short term.

As they say, patience is a virtue.

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Please don’t anybody take offence at the following post. If you do, rather than whinging to the moderators, how about engaging in a discussion of the points I’m raising? The fact that they are possibly unpalatable doesn’t make them wrong, racist or abusive. In the absence of clear information, they are questions which deserve to be asked.

 

I listened to most of this evening’s press conference and the subsequent questions from journalists. Seeing that they had in front of them the leader of the country and his top two senior medical advisors, why were all the questions asked related to the restrictions and their implications for the public. These were the sort of questions you would do better addressing to George, Zippy and Bungle. Given their propensity for simply reiterating their previous statements there was no point in asking them. Why did none of the journalists ask any pertinent questions as to this new strain of the virus? Are their questions vetted prior to broadcast? If so, then that’s unacceptable.

 

On a more general point, the virus seems to be getting out of control again, specifically in eastern regions and countries. Sweden, Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands and Italy have all been in the press this week announcing new restrictions. Now we have the south-east of the UK to add to this list. French researchers have confirmed that the arrival of cold, damp meteorological conditions tallies with the increase in infections in the country. French TV this evening referred to a spike in the wider Alps region following a specific storm in late October. Spain and Portugal don’t appear to have announced any major changes this week and within France the Atlantic seaboard is seeing far fewer cases than eastern regions. Surely in such a situation, everybody in the UK should be encouraged to spend Christmas in Wales and the west country.

 

As to the new UK strain, where has it come from? Is it a mutation within the country or within a specific community? Or has it been identified overseas and imported? The country’s two largest airports are in the region concerned so perhaps that was the entry point. Equally, Kent is the entry point for most non-airborne traffic so did it cross the Channel that way? Or has it somehow got into the country ‘illegally’ and the authorities don’t wish to reveal what they know. These are the type of questions the press should be asking.

 

Ed

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5 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

everybody in the UK should be encouraged to spend Christmas in Wales and the west country.

I hope that is a joke, the west country has low numbers but even here it is rising without the potential of spreading it here from other parts.

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1 minute ago, cvabishop said:

But maybe there are no solid answers -yet!

Dover is just one of a number of ports, there are several others of equal size. The virus seems to have taken hold in the Medway Towns rather than on the south coast.

So what is going on in those towns? Is it due to the climate or the population or something else? Ed

 

2 minutes ago, Solo said:

I hope that is a joke, the west country has low numbers but even here it is rising without the potential of spreading it here from other parts.

It's not a joke but an observation based on scientific suggestions that damp, temperate air is far less conducive to the spread of the virus than the damp, cold air seen in the more mountainous eastern regions of Europe.

Ed

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Viruses mutate anyway, they don’t come in from anywhere else as a new strain.  Cold viruses mutate all the time and it is the reason flu vaccines change every year.  Viruses can be altered while making copies of themselves in the host body ready to infect the next victims.  And so on.  Millions of different cold viruses - and they are, as said a long time ago, variants in the family of coronaviruses and have mutated millions of times.  You apparently cannot get the same cold virus twice, each cold you get will be a different mutation.  It is why older people get less colds.

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1 minute ago, Khaines said:

Viruses mutate anyway, they don’t come in from anywhere else as a new strain.  Cold viruses mutate all the time and it is the reason flu vaccines change every year.  Viruses can be altered while making copies of themselves in the host body ready to infect the next victims.  And so on.  Millions of different cold viruses - and they are, as said a long time ago, variants in the family of coronaviruses and have mutated millions of times.  You apparently cannot get the same cold virus twice, each cold you get will be a different mutation.  It is why older people get less colds.

I understand all that but the question is whether it mutated within the UK or overseas and was transported into the country before spreading out through the population. The French press (BFMTV) seemed to be suggesting earlier today that it has been found in the US too. Ed

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So what is going on in those towns? Is it due to the climate or the population or something else? Ed

There are suggestions by local politicians that the rise is a mixture of the increased virulence of the mutated strain and the non compliance of the local population with the rules.

This is the frustration of it all, it seems impossible to pin down just where the spread is occurring. If you don't know that with any confidence then it's very hard to combat it.

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21 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

It's not a joke but an observation based on scientific suggestions that damp, temperate air is far less conducive to the spread of the virus than the damp, cold air seen in the more mountainous eastern regions of Europe.

Maybe if it is colder outside more people spend time inside which are the best conditions to encourage spread.

12 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

and the non compliance of the local population with the rules

Various reports are showing little change in compliance. Having watched many many people, most have no idea on self protection or protecting others, and unless there was a mass change in already established behaviour then nothing will change.

For example the local shopkeeper wears three pairs of latex gloves when serving customers (against the mutant latex eating virus) but no face mask. Not changed since the start despite people telling so.

Edit to add - politicians, scientists or whoever banging on in the same manner is not going to get a better result. They are out of their depth, without a life jacket and haven’t learnt to swim.

Edited by Shipping Forecast
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Having planned a few days away from home (10 miles distance only to wife's daughter, son-in law and grandchildren), now cancelled -  I'm just know I'm going to be eating Christmas cake, mince pies etc come Easter!

Local feeling is that " It's all about London" - yet again, which is unfortunate as I'm sure the surge will travel north shortly.

 

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34 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

My preconceived idea of the Medway region is that it's full of caravan parks. First, is that correct? And second, might that have something to do with the spread - socialising on what is effectively private property without following the distancing rules? 

Ed

London Medway is over 27 miles of International port owned by Peel. We also have Sheerness, Isle of Grain & Tilbury and of course Harwich, Folkstone & Dover, as you highlight. This new strain has taken hold fully along both the M2 & M20 corridors, that's not a coincidence.

It's been discussed many, many times why - unlike medical professionals - others working within the essential workforce sphere such as European freight drivers aren't subject to the same weekly testing.

Concern was raised very early on during the first lockdown why shop staff weren't obligated to wear a face mask. That took 4 months to be actioned. No one has yet to chart the data determining what risk that posed.

They need to simply stand at the lectern and say nothing will change until 70% of the population is vaccinated, Covid will never go away and we need to except that from now on around 8,000 will die of it annually.

Just as with Flu we simply have to learn to live with it.

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They keep saying most infections in age groups of people who are at school, college and university. Then they show graphics showing how overtime this spreads to the middle age groups and then to the elderly.

Therefore to shorten this virus pandemic, cut the spread, is the logical answer vacinate the ones where most infections are being transmitted from. 11-21 year olds. Treat the root cause so it can't spread   upwards.

With the limit to 1 day at Christmas you can see the which family shall we have round argument resurfacing at this late stage. It should have been 2 days allowed. As now what may happen is people get both families round together on the 1 day and if anyone is infected the whole lot at risk. If you do it with one half on Christmas day and the other boxing day then as long as not the host family who has it, you reduce the numbers it could he passed onto. Also, if people in tier 4 don't have non essential  shops open, so how many will travel a few miles to tier 2 town so actually spreading it around rather than keeping shops open in tier 4 thus meaning less likely to travel out that area.

Its always a bit muddled with this government and a bit like the chap from vicar of dibley. Are you going to cancel Christmas 5 days? No no no no no yes!

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

Covid will never go away and we need to except that from now on around 8,000 will die of it annually.

An important point here is that it will not be those who die of flu plus those who die of COVID, but a combination of the two so the increase in death rate could even be small, even negligible, if one is more virulent getting there first so to speak, especially if the people more likely to die are the same subset eg, co-morbidities, weight issues, air pollution factor etc.

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10 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

I listened to most of this evening’s press conference and the subsequent questions from journalists. Seeing that they had in front of them the leader of the country and his top two senior medical advisors, why were all the questions asked related to the restrictions and their implications for the public. These were the sort of questions you would do better addressing to George, Zippy and Bungle. Given their propensity for simply reiterating their previous statements there was no point in asking them. Why did none of the journalists ask any pertinent questions as to this new strain of the virus? Are their questions vetted prior to broadcast? If so, then that’s unacceptable.  

Well firstly you`re right, thats exactly who they were addressing their questions to. Your more serious point touchs on censorship and that is valid. The questions are vetted and none other than OffCom are behind it. They issued strict instructions at the beginning of this that no views other than the views put forward by the Government, its advisors and the NHS were to be discussed. No other view should be broadcast..Eamonn Holmes was severly castigated in April for saying that all shades of opinion should be listened to.

  Thats why people like Dr Mike Yeadon( former chief scientist to Pfizer), Professors Gupta and Hennigan who should be in Sage are not. There is a Judicial Review Application presently ongoing against OffCom. So while the science is the science there is plenty going on behind it. It will of course all come out when the Public Enquiry starts.

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