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Please remember - this thread can get a bit heated at times... try to keep politics out of it, and be respectful to the views of others.

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That's rather sinister. Although I don't know what's more worrying: the government censoring the questions it's asked or Eamonn Holmes going rogue. 

If there is any situation where transparency should be the order of the day, it's this one. If Christmas is being ruined for the majority by the behaviour of a minority (for whom Christmas may or may not be relevant) then I think the wider public have a right to know and express their indignation appropriately. 

Ed

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We've a young crowd in here today!

It will be pasta and rice next, how have they got through the stockpiles from March?

Thanks everyone! 5 hours in theatre, all done. They misrouted the catheter and can't get a new one in. Pray I manage to pee before 10pm or the stick a pronged tube through my stomach.

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Hi All,

As this has moved away from ferries, I've moved this to Open House Chatter.

As always, we ask that those wishing to continue to discuss this subject do so with the respect but also openness of others' views; anyone who is engaging in this topic must be prepared to listen to the 'other side' (where such a situation occurs) as that is the nature of debate and discussion.

It is also worth remembering that yesterday's announcements may have some really severe personal repercussions for people (I can only go by my own family's quandary that we now have as a result!) so please do bear that in mind.  

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15 minutes ago, AdamW said:

It is also worth remembering that yesterday's announcements may have some really severe personal repercussions for people (I can only go by my own family's quandary that we now have as a result!) so please do bear that in mind. 

That sentiment was expressed by a woman on the R4 5.30am News Briefing this morning. Being terminally ill, she is not sure if delaying Christmas to the Spring or Summer 2021 will be too late for her.

Ed

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One of the most worrying aspects of all of this is the loss of traditional freedoms and free speech in main stream channels, coupled with the manipulation / propaganda. People who ask legitimate questions or have alternatives ideas / points of view for getting us out of this situation are being sidelined. 

The current plans are not working on many levels and true leaders would be listening to others instead of the heads in the sand incompetence of most politicians/ officials,  who are really glorified middle managers bumbling their way into the abyss while slapping each other on the back over how well we are all plunging.

Due to the ongoing lack of thought / misplaced trust, the wider people have turned into the turkeys who voted for Christmas.

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I think Adam touched on a valid point as to how this will affect people. Many are struggling with being on their own or with someone they no longer get on with. The sudden and cruel withdrawal of Christmas may well be enough to tip some over that terrible edge, and there is little any of us can do. People need people, they need interaction with others, its a basic need within human nature. Lets hope, as its all we can do.

  On the PCR test front the WHO are now distancing themselves from this as a reliable source of testing( they have too many lawsuits to fight) and say a positive must now be examined by a physician. Even the inventor said it was never designed to diagnose diseases. That decision was arrived at by the Portugese High Court last month. You won`t have heard anything about it as `The Establishment` called it fake news and disallowed its promulgation.

There is a website daily blog called lockdownsceptics.org which publishes alternative views from Doctors/Scientists/Universities etc and always say exactly where they have got their information from. Its not all tin foil hat stuff but its worth a read to find out the views that seem to be being ignored.

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Yes London and the south east of the country in tier 4.yet when you watch people getting on trains and getting told there is no social distancing on the trains due to overcrowding.WHY did the train companies allow this to happen in the first place?in other words these people are escaping from London and other areas in tier 4 to spread this virus all over the uk.to me the goverment should of stopped all travel out of them areas well before the time they stated.i know it would of been chaos but saving 1 life would of been worth it.stay safe

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23 minutes ago, nodwad said:

Yes London and the south east of the country in tier 4.yet when you watch people getting on trains and getting told there is no social distancing on the trains due to overcrowding.WHY did the train companies allow this to happen in the first place?in other words these people are escaping from London and other areas in tier 4 to spread this virus all over the uk.to me the goverment should of stopped all travel out of them areas well before the time they stated.i know it would of been chaos but saving 1 life would of been worth it.stay safe

nodwad - Given my line of work I can attempt to explain this and will post later. 

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37 minutes ago, nodwad said:

Yes London and the south east of the country in tier 4.yet when you watch people getting on trains and getting told there is no social distancing on the trains due to overcrowding.WHY did the train companies allow this to happen in the first place?in other words these people are escaping from London and other areas in tier 4 to spread this virus all over the uk.to me the goverment should of stopped all travel out of them areas well before the time they stated.i know it would of been chaos but saving 1 life would of been worth it.stay safe

I suppose it was not illegal so it relied on people to make the right decision. Stopping people who are not breaking the law is difficult. I fully agree that they should not have travelled but they probably thought it essential to leave the area

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2 minutes ago, IanN said:

I suppose it was not illegal so it relied on people to make the right decision. Stopping people who are not breaking the law is difficult. I fully agree that they should not have travelled but they probably thought it essential to leave the area

But they wouldn't do it in China, over there lockdown meant lockdown.  Over here every rule that's brought out people have looked for the loop hole.  I would just like the truth from China, have they got on top of it or not?

Our politicians have tried to keep everyone happy and it keeps backfiring, if they cancelled Christmas a month ago everybody would be unhappy but we hopefully would not be looking at another lockdown in January.

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48 minutes ago, nodwad said:

Yes London and the south east of the country in tier 4.yet when you watch people getting on trains and getting told there is no social distancing on the trains due to overcrowding.WHY did the train companies allow this to happen in the first place?in other words these people are escaping from London and other areas in tier 4 to spread this virus all over the uk.to me the goverment should of stopped all travel out of them areas well before the time they stated.i know it would of been chaos but saving 1 life would of been worth it.stay safe

Ok, now for a more in-depth response to this.

ENFORCEMENT of social distancing on trains has never been a railway operator responsibility. They have used tools to encourage it (reservations, signage, taping off of seats), but ultimately no member of railway staff is going to stand there at some open train doors and physically prevent someone from boarding. That is, and has been since 23rd March, responsibility of the British Transport Police. 

In terms of adding extra capacity, this is difficult to do at short notice. The railway overall has very limited resource due to 3 factors - 1) people like to take leave at this time of year, and all leave is 'maxed out'. 2) There is higher than normal sickness (partly COVID). 3) Training was all but suspended for 6 months, meaning that operational staff could retire, but there was no way to train their replacements. 

To add coaches to a train, you need to have a spare driver to bring the extra coaches from the depot (Good luck - resources are thin on the ground already as per the above) and have resource at the other end as the depot that the train finishes at around midnight now has to deal with more vehicles than planned. (Do they have the space? Does the extra train mean they need another spare driver to move it?) Additionally you are now -1 train for start of service the following day at the depot you sent the spare train from. (Are there other trains that can be used? Do they need work doing to them before they go out, which again is extra staff?)

 

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1 hour ago, Paully said:

I think Adam touched on a valid point as to how this will affect people. Many are struggling with being on their own or with someone they no longer get on with. The sudden and cruel withdrawal of Christmas may well be enough to tip some over that terrible edge, and there is little any of us can do. People need people, they need interaction with others, its a basic need within human nature. Lets hope, as its all we can do.

Indeed, my point also was for use in the context of debate on this forum and all forum users. Without wishing to be too cheesy, please be kind to each other! 😀

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1 hour ago, AdamW said:

Ok, now for a more in-depth response to this.

ENFORCEMENT of social distancing on trains has never been a railway operator responsibility. They have used tools to encourage it (reservations, signage, taping off of seats), but ultimately no member of railway staff is going to stand there at some open train doors and physically prevent someone from boarding. That is, and has been since 23rd March, responsibility of the British Transport Police. 

In terms of adding extra capacity, this is difficult to do at short notice. The railway overall has very limited resource due to 3 factors - 1) people like to take leave at this time of year, and all leave is 'maxed out'. 2) There is higher than normal sickness (partly COVID). 3) Training was all but suspended for 6 months, meaning that operational staff could retire, but there was no way to train their replacements. 

To add coaches to a train, you need to have a spare driver to bring the extra coaches from the depot (Good luck - resources are thin on the ground already as per the above) and have resource at the other end as the depot that the train finishes at around midnight now has to deal with more vehicles than planned. (Do they have the space? Does the extra train mean they need another spare driver to move it?) Additionally you are now -1 train for start of service the following day at the depot you sent the spare train from. (Are there other trains that can be used? Do they need work doing to them before they go out, which again is extra staff?)

 

Many thanks for the update ,when I think this was thrown into the lap of the train companies at the last minute.just the overcrowding I was getting at and why that many people were allowed on board.now you have educated me I can understand what the problem was.stay safe

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8 minutes ago, nodwad said:

Many thanks for the update ,when I think this was thrown into the lap of the train companies at the last minute.just the overcrowding I was getting at and why that many people were allowed on board.now you have educated me I can understand what the problem was.stay safe

Even with prior knowledge and ability to plan, not a great deal more could have been done in terms of capacity, as to offer extra capacity would need more staff who just don't exist or cancelling trains elsewhere to 're-use' the staff on the 'London evacuation effort' (which also wouldn't work because a driver who is only qualified to drive York - Leeds wouldn't be a great deal of use in getting people out of London to Leeds). 

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I guess it had to happen;

The day after the announcement of the reconfinement of part of the United Kingdom, France is suspending for 48 hours "all passenger travel, including that related to the transport of goods, by road, air, sea or rail from the United Kingdom", "starting this Sunday 20 December at midnight", announces Matignon. 

 

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6 minutes ago, BZH29 said:

I guess it had to happen;

The day after the announcement of the reconfinement of part of the United Kingdom, France is suspending for 48 hours "all passenger travel, including that related to the transport of goods, by road, air, sea or rail from the United Kingdom", "starting this Sunday 20 December at midnight", announces Matignon. 

 

Passengers make sense, however 48 hours without lorries will lead to chaos - looks like they will allow only unaccompanied trailers if I am reading that correctly.

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We are now in Tier 4 (Tunbridge Wells) and looking on the positive side for Christmas, we do not have to feed and water the family and friends with all the associated work of preparing and clearing up.

I can sit in my favourite chair and fall asleep watching the Sound of Music and the Great Escape in peace, what could be better.

 

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Looking at the positive side of what is clearly a bad situaton, if the EU insist on tests before travel then at least that will mean the UK putting in place a testing service which is both standardised and officially recognised, thereby eliminating any confusion. 

The PCR test can return results in 24 hours but they would be better off using the rapid antigen test at departure points followed up by a PCR 4 or 5 days after arrival in the country. That would simplify the situation for those travelling on short trips from business, to check on their holiday homes or to attend funerals etc.. That way you could leave the country again before the test is due but take a further antigen test on departure which would serve the same purpose.

Ed

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