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Please remember - this thread can get a bit heated at times... try to keep politics out of it, and be respectful to the views of others.

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41 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

The wording is understandable (but how many have read it?) but th effects may be unpredictable.

I have model boating friends so I could arrange to meet one down at the lake where we can stand 2 metres apart and happily operate our boats. All quite legal. Then a couple of others arrive and do the same, maintaining social distancing, and then another pair and then another (it's a decent sized lake!).

At what point does it change from four one on one social interactions to a group social gathering which is banned?

Answers on a postcard...

You could all do the conga that’s allowed. 

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We've a young crowd in here today!

It will be pasta and rice next, how have they got through the stockpiles from March?

Neil’s photo reminded me of my own mother, also a Margaret and 88 years young, lives on her own in a retirement flat near Bristol. She hasn’t seen anyone for over a week now so really important point

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2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

We need a Ministry of Information, seeing as Boris believes he's leading us through a wartime situation, to collate, coordinate, publish, broadcast and justify any government statements to avoid this type of confusion. It would stop ministers getting invited onto TV and radio shows to answer questions on one subject and then being tricked into making unfounded remarks on others. Ed. 

Totally agree with you. I would much prefer to see ministers stay in their offices and do their job properly rather than parade around TV studios and exhibit their lack of grip on the situtation

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Apologies if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

Has anyone seen the new attestation for travel within France post 11 May?  I have to drive back to Switzerland 24 May (I'm taking Eurotunnel as I can't go Portsmouth/Caen) to 1. go back to work, and 2. get on with finalising things for my permanent move back to the UK in July when I retire.  I came over to my UK home mid-March just before everything shut down. 

I have the attestation needed to get into France (ATTESTATION DE DÉPLACEMENT INTERNATIONAL DÉROGATOIRE VERS LA FRANCE MÉTROPOLITAINE, using the option "Personnes transitant par la France pour rejoindre leur résidence, ainsi que leurs conjoints et leurs enfants" - I have a Swiss work/resident permit and proof of address) but can't find any attestation for travel within France.  Even on the old pre-11 May attestation form, there wasn't an option for "transiting" as a reason.  I don't see anything on the French government website for post-11 May travel.

Thanks for any help!

Roy

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5 minutes ago, Buzz said:

Apologies if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

Has anyone seen the new attestation for travel within France post 11 May?  I have to drive back to Switzerland 24 May (I'm taking Eurotunnel as I can't go Portsmouth/Caen) to 1. go back to work, and 2. get on with finalising things for my permanent move back to the UK in July when I retire.  I came over to my UK home mid-March just before everything shut down. 

I have the attestation needed to get into France (ATTESTATION DE DÉPLACEMENT INTERNATIONAL DÉROGATOIRE VERS LA FRANCE MÉTROPOLITAINE, using the option "Personnes transitant par la France pour rejoindre leur résidence, ainsi que leurs conjoints et leurs enfants" - I have a Swiss work/resident permit and proof of address) but can't find any attestation for travel within France.  Even on the old pre-11 May attestation form, there wasn't an option for "transiting" as a reason.  I don't see anything on the French government website for post-11 May travel.

Thanks for any help!

Roy

Hi,

Try this page. it should provide you with what you need.

https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Deconfinement-Declaration-de-deplacement

Ed

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From now on no one can blame the government or hold them responsible, as everyone must use their good old fashioned British common sense. If they don't, then don't point the finger at HM Gov. Good luck.....

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Just now, colin said:

From now on no one can blame the government or hold them responsible, as everyone must use their good old fashioned British common sense. If they don't, then don't point the finger at HM Gov. Good luck.....

Saves making laws and regulations, may as well close Parliament if you can't define the rules.

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Thanks, Ed.  No idea why I didn't find that when I was stumbling around the website.

None of the seven options apply again (except perhaps #1 at a stretch), maybe I should have all seven versions and work through them until the gendarmes are happy to send me on my way.  I'll only be stopping once for fuel so won't be a risk to anyone!

Roy

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3 minutes ago, Buzz said:

Thanks, Ed.  No idea why I didn't find that when I was stumbling around the website.

None of the seven options apply again (except perhaps #1 at a stretch), maybe I should have all seven versions and work through them until the gendarmes are happy to send me on my way.  I'll only be stopping once for fuel so won't be a risk to anyone!

Roy

Yes, you might get away with number 4 too if you are moving house with other family members.

What would happen if you were to drive up through Germany and Belgium and into France near Dunquerque. Do the other countries require similar documents
 

Ed

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But if the devolved nations are operating to their own timetable and not Westminster which seems to only apply to England , then surely it is their version of common sense that they will be applying and not a British one .

 

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4 minutes ago, Chef said:

But if the devolved nations are operating to their own timetable and not Westminster which seems to only apply to England , then surely it is their version of common sense that they will be applying and not a British one .

 

That’s a big old can of worms you’ve opened there.

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2 hours ago, cvabishop said:

The wording is understandable (but how many have read it?) but th effects may be unpredictable.

I have model boating friends so I could arrange to meet one down at the lake where we can stand 2 metres apart and happily operate our boats. All quite legal. Then a couple of others arrive and do the same, maintaining social distancing, and then another pair and then another (it's a decent sized lake!).

At what point does it change from four one on one social interactions to a group social gathering which is banned?

Answers on a postcard...

I think that the risk is roughly the same as coarse fishing which appears to be opening up shortly ....

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Yes, probably a similar situation if the fishermen are spaced out along the bank. (do fishermen get spaced out?!).

Really the whole thing boils down to not coming within 2 metres of somebody outside unless they are from your immediate household. That would be a clearer rule rather than trying to micro manage hundreds of individual permutations which is what is happening at the moment.

Basically the Government are concerned about people mingling and coming in close proximity to each other which is apparently going on already with the younger generations, whether out in public open spaces or in house  or garden parties. They don't trust people to observe this and they have probably got a point but th current guidance isn't really going to help the situation I think.

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As I awake from from dreaming of a sunset across La Manche with the dull thud of engines chortling away in the distance and a slightly diesel smell in the air, I am not sure why everyone is confused about the governments plan. HMG’s plan is a masterful lesson in British fudge (diplomatic not clotted cream variety). 

A sincerely worded document to tick as many boxes / satisfy the main parties, while allowing as much leeway / self discrimination / acting in self interest as possible. How about

  • The individual nations can show their independence to their national voters by setting their own rules and timetable while all complying with ‘scientific advice’, while still nodding to overall UK policies. After all Boris, Nicola and company are having regular talks so if you were ultra sceptical this difference is probably co-ordinated too.
  • We can start the economy again as workers can work at home or in the place of work ‘if need to’, passing the baton of getting people to work to businesses / self employed without the government telling them furlough etc is over, appearing the bad person and good for politician's votes. Businesses earning money again, people work giving purpose, social connection and income - all paying tax for the magic money tree.
  • Saves each government the hassle of protection too, that is down to each business to protect staff under the guise of meeting national standards, all 4 governments off the hook.
  • Releases the social safety valve gradually; you can meet other people while maintaining social distancing, and the groups will gradual expand and all before the chance of mass disobedience and putting all those in authority in a pickle of how to deal with a beach sit-in, or a mass park sun bathe. This measured social expansion is a good way too to spread the virus gradually building community immunity, with 'those in charge' knowing that most people are asymptomatic and if they have capacity to manage cases in NHS then that is all in the common good. Don't care where you are on the political spectrum, the leaders need a new normal a.s.a.p..
  • Give the Illusion of freedom, you can travel a bit, give your car a run, but cannot do anything or stay anywhere, assuaging the frustrations of staying in a box, but still limiting potential spread in a controlled manner. Good for mental health too. In the end most trips will be pointless discouraging further travel, but we the government have given you the freedom back not to do this.
  • Satisfies those who need a system, by having a level system to follow, but since Level 1 is meaningless (No SARS-CoV-2 in the UK - never going to happen) the other levels must be somewhat arbitrary too. Someone can move the level up and down a bit to keep people happy and look as if we are all working hard on monitoring, while actually working on things that matter - treatments etc. (Maybe slightly too sceptical but since R is a best guess, sorry scientifically accurate measure of course, at this stage the level will go up and down depending on hospital admissions not on anything else).

I could go on but to sum up, as long as you keep roughly to the guidance (rules) that we have set out please get on with it and don’t bother us, we (Boris, Nicola, Mark, Arlene, Michelle and associated friends) really have better things to do than than deal with the tiresome situations, chase all the potential infringements and regulating every indiscretion. The belief the four nations leaders are different is a fallacy, they all want to get on with ruling, sorry governing, and playing governing games and realising personal agendas.

As to those talking rule differences between the four nations, how is it any different from going from any country to any another country, just because you can speed on the autobahns in Germany, it doesn’t mean you can speed in every other country. Requires a modicum of thought maybe but hardly beyond the wit of most people, although I am sure MSM will whip it up into the next Corona Crisis for everyone to get in a blather about.

Anyway back to dreaming of the delights of enjoying that ferry crossing …

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15 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Yes, you might get away with number 4 too if you are moving house with other family members.

What would happen if you were to drive up through Germany and Belgium and into France near Dunquerque. Do the other countries require similar documents
 

Ed

The first trip on 24 May is to Switzerland in my Swiss car that I came over here with in the middle of March on the day before France introduced the previous attestation.  When they announced the imposition of a 14-day quarantine in France, and before they exempted the UK, my Plan B to get back to Switzerland was to go Harwick/Hook of Holland and then into and through Germany.  But that seemed to be a bit dodgy too when I looked into it.  I didn’t look into it any more when France exempted the UK from the quarantine.

My Swiss car goes back off lease early July.  My plan was to fly back to the UK late June, self-isolate at home for 14 days if they bring in that requirement, take my UK car back to Switzerland early July and finally come back in that again when I retire at the end of July.  Maybe Portsmouth/Caen will be running by early July (home here is in North Devon).  Number 4 of the attestation may work for the final trip home to the UK at the end of July, assuming the restrictions are still the same then.

I’m retiring from the airline industry – seems a good time to get out!

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From today in England you are allowed a cleaner in your house but not a family member, you can also go and view a house but not visit relatives, also we now have businesses like estate agents buying PPE 😟

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Discrimination aganst families then! Or maybe the other way round, cleaners and estate agents are expected to put themselves at risk. (along with the Russian Roulette chancers on public transport.)

I went to the supermarket at 8am this morning, the increase in road traffic was very evident.

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37 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Discrimination aganst families then! Or maybe the other way round, cleaners and estate agents are expected to put themselves at risk. (along with the Russian Roulette chancers on public transport.)

I went to the supermarket at 8am this morning, the increase in road traffic was very evident.

Well that may be because although the government has said stay home if you don’t feel safe going to work you have no legal back up to do that in other words your employer can sack you if you don’t turn up from today no matter what your circumstances are.

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9 minutes ago, Manxscorpio said:

Unless your cleaner is a family member 😎

And you could visit that family members house if they put it up for sale.

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Londoners do seem to be 'a law unto themselves', there was a BBC report a few days back showing a total disregard for the rules on public parks.  Our local bus companies have set up distancing on board, screening, no pick-ups if they are already at capacity, pre-paid card tickets only, combined with cleaning between trips and deep cleaning overnight - although I can get by without using the bus, I am actually pleased with their efforts to meet requirements.  Unfortunately they have lost a very popular 59 year old driver to the virus, which for a few days resulted in suspension of services until they had set these measures in place to the satisfaction of the staff.

However I do not trust Sky news - they were reportedly encouraging hospital staff at Nottingham's QMC not to distance or change out of workwear when filming the Thursday evening applause last week.  The Trust had to issue a warning email memo to staff warning about them staging situations.

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