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Please remember - this thread can get a bit heated at times... try to keep politics out of it, and be respectful to the views of others.

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A lot of businesses haven’t went back to their offices because they are saving a ton of money by not paying rent rates on expensive city Centre office space and haven’t seen a reduction in productivity. 

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We've a young crowd in here today!

It will be pasta and rice next, how have they got through the stockpiles from March?

Neil’s photo reminded me of my own mother, also a Margaret and 88 years young, lives on her own in a retirement flat near Bristol. She hasn’t seen anyone for over a week now so really important point

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Unfortunately the major hit is new collaboration and networking as the opportunities to bump into people has vanished.

And not just that either. If you are already in a job with all the necessary skills and internet links with your colleagues then working from home has its attractions provided you have the space available (not all do).

But if you are a youngster looking for a new job then a company with no workplace or direct contact with and no personal supervision by colleagues is a bit of a downer.

Edited by cvabishop
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But all the arguments about home / office only apply to desk-based jobs. There are a huge number of activities which simply cannot be done from home. Manufacturing, building and construction, logistics and deliveries, shops, the many parts of the NHS that have been effectively shut down due to COVID. The list goes on. It is going to be a long hard winter for a lot of people.

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Looking at what is happening in 'Holiday Europe' , in particular Greece and Portugal, I don't think there can be any further doubt that tourism is a major factor in increasing infections. In every case the opening up to national and international tourism has correlated with an infection upsurge. Lack of social distancing between younger people has also been a key driver.

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The number of new cases in France on Monday was just over 3,000 after consecutive drops over the weekend. It will be interesting to see today's figures to confirm if it's just a blip or a trend. If, like me, most people returned from holiday after the 15th August that tallies well with the 14-day incubation period. The problem now is that most of the university students will be back on campus this week or next and could fuel a further spike in a fortnight's time. Ed. 

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On 31/08/2020 at 09:37, cvabishop said:

Actually I'd have thought it dead easy really, these are small aircraft and the crew just need to walk down from the front amd it would be immediately obvious. I grant you that the quality of the masks would be problematical.

However, reading between the lines it seems there were a number of young guys wakling up and down the aisle and I would imagine in a tanked up state. The mainly female cabin crew may have felt intimidated or unwilling to make an issue of it which might have led to disorder and made things even worse.

Either way you have a bunch of idiots who have most likely spread the virus to many other passengers and when they get home they are asked to self isolate (not been quarantined) which they will probably ignore and meet up with their mates and then in a week or so we will see another local semi lockdown or two in the UK.

I agree with you 100%.

The cabin crew always walk through the plane checking that the trays are up, seats are in the upright position and seat belts are fastened before take-off. They could easily add a check and request the proper wearing of face covering at the same time (this could also be demonstrated at the same time as the life jacket demo).

I bet if anyone refused to wear their seat belt, the plane would not be allowed to take off until the passenger was escorted off of the aircraft.  Surely no one would be foolish enough to undo their seat belt once the crew had gone to “take-off” positions.

When the “Fasten Seat belts” sign comes on due to possible turbulance everyone must remain in their seats and this is enforced by the cabin crew. So if Tui’s policy that they put on line after the recent Zante flight was that “Passengers must remain seated throughout the flight” why wasn’t it enforced

I believe, the root course of the mask problem stems from day 1 when the government was telling us that if the young caught coronavirus (before it was rebadged as Covid 19) it would only be a mild illness and not be fatal.  Therefore the covidiots, many of who, but not all, are macho young males, think that are immune and therefore why bother to wear a mask?. They don’t give a toss if they can however pass it on to others.  

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20 hours ago, neilcvx said:

A lot of businesses haven’t went back to their offices because they are saving a ton of money by not paying rent rates on expensive city Centre office space and haven’t seen a reduction in productivity. 

Not necessarily - it depends on if they're in term for the leases or not. A lot of firms are paying a lot of money for buildings they can't or won't use. 

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3 hours ago, Jim said:

Not necessarily - it depends on if they're in term for the leases or not. A lot of firms are paying a lot of money for buildings they can't or won't use. 

Presumably they will still be saving money on heating, cleaning etc 

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6 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

The number of new cases in France on Monday was just over 3,000 after consecutive drops over the weekend. It will be interesting to see today's figures to confirm if it's just a blip or a trend. If, like me, most people returned from holiday after the 15th August that tallies well with the 14-day incubation period. The problem now is that most of the university students will be back on campus this week or next and could fuel a further spike in a fortnight's time. Ed. 

It was a blip as today there are almost 5,000 new cases but the 7-day average does seem to be dropping. The thing is that they are conducted around 800,000 tests every week (many of them students worried about what they might have picked up at parties) and less than 10% are positive. Theoretically, if you look for something then you are likely to find it so the increase is not necessarily the result of rising numbers of infections but of more people coming forward to be tested, many of whom will be asymptomatic. Ed. 

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58 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Does anyone know what the significance of the 4am rule is for quarantine? Is it related to the time when regional airports are allowed to receive their first morning flights? Ed. 

I imagine it's related to the time a Minister was planning on being home by ;) 

 

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The number of new cases in France on Monday was just over 3,000 after consecutive drops over the weekend. It will be interesting to see today's figures to confirm if it's just a blip or a trend.

It's up to 4,982 😲

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From the BBC and following on from a similar report two weeks ago. (Presumably if they started testing for STIs they'd get even higher rates!):

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For many of Europe's naturists - and the tens of thousands of swingers among them - Cap d'Agde in southern France has become a traditional summer destination, but a coronavirus outbreak here has shone an uncomfortable light on their alternative lifestyle, Chris Bockman writes.

France has seen a surge in infections, with 7,000 people recently testing positive in one day.

The southern area of Hérault, and Cap d'Agde in particular, has seen some of the biggest numbers. Home to the biggest naturist resort in Europe, it has a distinct focus on hedonism.

But now, health authorities - who set up a mobile testing operation outside the village - have found 30% of the 800 naturists checked have tested positive.

Read more on this story here.

-----

Ed

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52 minutes ago, David Williams said:

Re France, the key figure for UK quarantine is to get below 20 cases per 100,000 in a 7 day period. It is now 56, up from 35 a week ago. The most useful summary is on the Paul Charles Twitter account.

 

 

I have a work contact who lives in southern Spain and whose office is in Gibraltar. The last email I received (at the weekend) suggests that they are anticipating another lockdown. 

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The concern for many actively involved within SAGE is that due to the government algorithm and their ad hoc arbitrary approach short term quarantining won't end until most of the population of a country has had the virus.

As track & trace, testing & swabbing techniques become more sophisticated new case levels will obviously increase, this isn't a reflection of the virus re-establishing itself, it's more about detecting cases which were there in the first place.

The reality is that although across most if not all of Europe new case rates are increasing, the percentage of hospitalisations and mortality rates continues to fall.

I'd like to reiterate...

The 53 WHO recognised European nations have a population larger than 740 million. There are currently 1.7 million active cases and less than 8000 require ITU/HDU/ICU intervention.

In the U.K there are currently 640 hospitalised cases, less than 10% require specialised care.

 

 

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short term quarantining won't end until most of the population of a country has had the virus.

Possibly true, but at the age of 72 I don't want to be one of them!

I appreciate that overall the risk is low, particularly in the South East, and that we should act accordingly. In fact this afternoon we have visited our local town where I had an eye test (with appropriate precautions) and my Wife and I visited several shops, masked as the regulations require. Keeping a reasonable distance from others or swiftly passing them was not really a problem (famous last words?!) so I think there was minimal risk of exposure although you can never reduce it to zero.

What really does infuriate us is the significant proportion of the population who literally don't give a damn knowing that even if they do get it it may be asymptomatic or symptoms may be mild. It is these people who are keeping infection levels up and causing most of the general national and international grief.

OK, supressing the virus doesn't make it go away, but it does help provide a breathing space until we can see whether effective vaccines and/or treatments can be rolled out which is what is needed to restore confidence.

 

Edited by cvabishop
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What is getting my goat at the moment is the allowance of Extinction Rebellion gatherings in London, yet the Government want to crack down on gatherings of more than 30 people, an example being raves.  What difference is there in ER and raves.  Both attract large amounts of people with little social distancing, both from all over the country, taking their bugs back to their own neighbourhoods, yet it seems OK for ER.  Virus tell the difference can it?

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