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On another theme, I promised to post my picture of BF's Goelo when I found it, and I have done so.  Apologies it is not the best quality. This picture was taken from on board Viking Victory on departu

STENA LINE used the linkspan at berths 24/25 in the Empress Dock and the linkspan at berth 30 on the Itchen Quays. The Ocean Dock is a completely different dock. Ocean Dock consists of berth

My father worked in the Port of Southampton for 42 year's. When I was a young lad he often took me to work with him (you'd never be able to anything like that now for obvious reasons). I wen

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23 hours ago, cvabishop said:

In these two photos of the wonderful model that used to be in the old Southampton Maritime Museum and shows the port between the wars you can see the original ferry berths at the back occupied by two of the Isle of Sark/Guernesey/Jersey railway ship trio.

 

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Wow, I have to go visit this museum!

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We've spent a lot of time in Le Havre recently, let's move to Cherbourg which, sorry LHC, is much my favourite of the two Thoresen ports.

One of these ships changed the world and transported millions of Britons on adventures of a lifetime. And the other is the Queen Elizabeth.

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Wow, I have to go visit this museum!

Unfortunately you can't, it was closed some years ago in favour of a new museum attached to the Civic Centre which focusses on the Titanic and lots of interactive displays which were felt to be more interesting to today's public. In short it was 'dumbed down'. A tragedy really as the original museum on the waterfront was an absolute gem. To see something of what you are missing here is a link to an article I wrote for Model Boats magazine back in 2009. Click on the individucal images for bigger versions.

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/a-vanished-era/7072

Most of the exhibits shown never made it into the new museum. They are probably locked away somewhere out of sight.

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17 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Unfortunately you can't, it was closed some years ago in favour of a new museum attached to the Civic Centre which focusses on the Titanic and lots of interactive displays which were felt to be more interesting to today's public. In short it was 'dumbed down'. A tragedy really as the original museum on the waterfront was an absolute gem. To see something of what you are missing here is a link to an article I wrote for Model Boats magazine back in 2009. Click on the individucal images for bigger versions.

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/a-vanished-era/7072

Most of the exhibits shown never made it into the new museum. They are probably locked away somewhere out of sight.

It's a shame not to exhibit these beautiful models.

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The pictures showing the changes to Le Havre over the years are fascinating, thanks to LHCity and hhvferry for posting them. I never noticed the difference between the jumbo Viking Valiant and Viking Venturer, they have different colour TT's on the upper bow door.  Townsend Thoresen often did things like that to distinguish sister ships, the Spirit class all had differences allegedly so they could tell the difference from Channel House.

Where was the Normandy Ferries terminal in Le Havre in relation to the rest of the city? I've read it was in quite an inconvenient location in comparison to the Thoresen terminal

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23 hours ago, hhvferry said:

We've spent a lot of time in Le Havre recently, let's move to Cherbourg which, sorry LHC, is much my favourite of the two Thoresen ports.

One of these ships changed the world and transported millions of Britons on adventures of a lifetime. And the other is the Queen Elizabeth.

image.png.22812c820ce41f30d1c4559696ec5423.png

What a great picture hhv.  Do you happen to have a date for it or know which Viking it is?

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A few more 90's specials, not nearly as impressing as the real antiques above.  The Barfleur review is from the AA guide, which detailed all ferries serving the UK. Did anyone get a cardboard model of Normandie or was that the one they actually used to measure the steel from?!

 

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And some P&O oddities. The Burgundy as the next big thing, the Jetliner (anyone remember that one?). A jumbo-ised Super Viking from just about the best angle (to pick up on another post) and a pack of cards which somewhat improbably features the Pride of Provence (ex Stena Jutlandica)

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1 hour ago, VikingVoyager said:

A few more 90's specials, not nearly as impressing as the real antiques above.  The Barfleur review is from the AA guide, which detailed all ferries serving the UK. Did anyone get a cardboard model of Normandie or was that the one they actually used to measure the steel from?!

 

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Thanks for that I remember those brochures well..No t`internet in those days, I kept bobbing in to the travel agents until the glorious day those were on the shelves and open to book. Used to love pouring over them and working out if I could afford the Bretagne on the overnight (always did) no dynamic pricing. One price published and kept to. Happy days

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I had all those brochures and as a 12 year old kid I was obsessed with wanting that Normandie model. I had one of the Norsun, Sally Star and Finnjet but really wanted Normandie.

I remember Jetliner, went on it, actually quite liked it. I think it must have been in 1997 (day after Blair one the election) as we went out on Jetliner and back on Pride of Rathlin or Aisla (can't remember which) and then on Stena Voyager (HSS) the next day. I remember liking Jetliner more than I thought I would, and not feeling the HSS lived up to the hype.

They actually managed to make Pride of Burgundy look half decent in that drawing. I went on a Ferry Publications excursion (April 1993?) out on Burgundy and back on Prins Filip from Oostende. We were taken out onto the Eastern Arm at Dover to watch Burgundy come in, it was the ugliest thing I'd seen and I'd already been on Princesse Marie Christine. I remember having real issues coming to terms with the fact that the funnel wasn't centered, had never seen that before and it upset me. Then got on board and was hugely underwhelmed.

I think that drawing was from an earlier edition of the 1993 P&O European Ferries brochure. I remember there being a later edition where Pride of Bilbao joined the same spread. I may be wrong but if not then that's not bad for a 27-year old memory of a ferry brochure... and perhaps rather sad too!

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I wanted a cardboard cut out Normandie. I remember going on her when she was in her first couple of years on the family holiday. The distance from the horses forward around the lounges felt a long way compared to anything I had been on before. Then the central staircase with the photo booth and boutique up to the cafe which felt huge. I was given a Brittany Ferries cardboard ship model the but it was of Bretagne and I was disappointed! It is a shame they no longer have these or don't put them online to print yourself! 

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1 hour ago, Seashore said:

 

I remember Jetliner, went on it, actually quite liked it. I think it must have been in 1997 (day after Blair one the election) as we went out on Jetliner and back on Pride of Rathlin or Aisla (can't remember which) and then on Stena Voyager (HSS) the next day. I remember liking Jetliner more than I thought I would, and not feeling the HSS lived up to the hype.

 

I travelled on Pride of Rathlin in July 2000. A colleague of my husband was getting married in Northern Ireland and we travelled over from Cairnryan to Larne for the wedding with a couple of other friends. I was 34 weeks pregnant at the time and it was only afterwards that hubby told me that Pride of Rathlin had been rated as the least safe ferry in British waters.

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2 hours ago, Seashore said:

They actually managed to make Pride of Burgundy look half decent in that drawing. I went on a Ferry Publications excursion (April 1993?) out on Burgundy and back on Prins Filip from Oostende. We were taken out onto the Eastern Arm at Dover to watch Burgundy come in, it was the ugliest thing I'd seen and I'd already been on Princesse Marie Christine.

I always liked her! I think we came back from a school trip to CERN on her -this would be 1996. I kind of liked the look that she was built up from bits - basically a big Lego model!

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7 hours ago, Gareth said:

What a great picture hhv.  Do you happen to have a date for it or know which Viking it is?

Well QE retired in November 1968 so that's a backstop but no I don't have a date. Any ideas how to spot which Viking is which from this angle? The builders plate, if it wasn't hidden by the raised bow visor, would distinguish I/II from III but apart from that I've no ideas.

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Somewhere I still have a minature lifebuoy and a fabric sailor with the ship name on his hat .... RMS Hebrides.

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On 04/05/2020 at 13:46, VikingVoyager said:

And some P&O oddities. The Burgundy as the next big thing, the Jetliner (anyone remember that one?). A jumbo-ised Super Viking from just about the best angle (to pick up on another post) and a pack of cards which somewhat improbably features the Pride of Provence (ex Stena Jutlandica)

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If you look on the cover of the 1987 TT car & passenger ferry guide it illustrates a D reg ford Escort Cabriolet. The same vehicle and posing passengers are also in the 1989 P&O European ferries car ferry guide.

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8 minutes ago, jonno said:

If you look on the cover of the 1987 TT car & passenger ferry guide it illustrates a D reg ford Escort Cabriolet. The same vehicle and posing passengers are also in the 1989 P&O European ferries car ferry guide.

And here it is in profile (I was going to upload these the other day but I got past my upload limit). Back then, I remember thinking that Color Line felt like the most exotic thing possible

image.thumb.png.807917f798ea81830f47b66db24477b8.pngimage.thumb.png.ea42ff01f05c93803dfee384fcef7faa.png

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Sally Line were cool. They used to give you free Nautical Miles for the sake of it and they pretty much paid for the crossing. Then they’d give you more Nautical Miles just for booking a free crossing. Did anyone ever pay?

Of course they made their money from duty free, I remember both Sally Star and Sally Sky having massive duty free shops compared with most of the Dover ships, end of duty free probably killed it.

I’m sure still got about 6m Nautical Miles left to redeem!!

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On 02/05/2020 at 15:37, Gareth said:

Well spotted.  Looks like Valiant.  I wonder, maybe something to do with her Silver Jubilee duties?

Photo was taken in 1979.

The two vessels in question are the VIKING VALIANT and VIKING VICTORY

VIKING VALIANT is on temporary Winter lay up and the VIKING VICTORY is covering for her.

VIKING IV is at her usual freight berth.

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On 02/05/2020 at 12:32, Seashore said:

The port used by Townsend Thoresen and P&O Normandy Ferries as Alexandra Dock, which is still there but has been redeveloped into Ocean Village marina.

When (Sealink) Stena Line sailed to Cherbourg in the first half of the 1990s they used Ocean Dock, which is still there, in fact the two linkspans Stena Normandy used are still there; one in the dock and one on the outer harbour wall.

Portsmouth Ferry Port opened in 1976, first crossings were Brittany Ferries once a day to St Malo and Townsend Thoresen ran a daily Cherbourg service. TT stopped their passenger services on 31/12/1983 moving their Le Havre and Cherbourg routes to Portsmouth, although they still ran a freight-only service until November 1984. The port was then no longer a cross channel port until Stena moved in there in 1991, arguably with what was at the time the best Western Channel ferry although she was very much eclipsed during her short time there. They also had a back up freighter in Summer 1992 too. The original plan was that Stena Normandy was going to be replaced by one of the HSS 900 craft, similar to Stena Carisma, and move to Portsmouth but the shipyard going bust put immediate pay to that.

Talking about better positioned ports... one of the earlier posts said that Portsmouth is better for those coming from the Midlands and South West, that's false. I'd much rather go from Southampton and the extra 30 minutes it took Stena Normandy to get up compared with the P&O Super Vikings to Portsmouth was entirely worth it.

STENA LINE used the linkspan at berths 24/25 in the Empress Dock and the linkspan at berth 30 on the Itchen Quays.

The Ocean Dock is a completely different dock.

Ocean Dock consists of berths 42/43/44...45...and 46/47. The latter berths is where the current Ocean Terminal is situated.

In 1967 when the inner dock was filled in to create two extra ro/ro berths the Outer Dock was renamed the Princess Alexandra Dock.

Townsend Thoresen initially used the linkspan at berth 7 and used berth 6 as a layover berth.

Townsend Thoresen used berth 1 for the VIKING IV freight ferry.

Normandy Ferries/P&O Ferries used the linkspan at berth 2 with the DRAGON and LEOPARD to Le Havre. Between April and October 1980 P&O Ferries also used the JAGUAR as extra freight capacity.

Swedish Lloyd used the linkspan at berth 3 with the PATRICIA to Bilbao. Swedish Lloyd also used the HISPANIA alongside the PATRICIA to Bilbao between 1968 and 1972.

Swedish Lloyd discontinued Southampton to Bilbao on the 07 September 1977 and was replaced on the route a week later by McAndrews with the GOYA, (which in 1983 became Townsend Thoresen VIKING TRADER).

McAndrews discontinued it's weekly Southampton-Bordeaux-Bilbao-Bordeaux-Southampton freight only service in February 1980.

Townsend Thoresen relocated their operations to berth 3 in April 1980, and also used berth 30 for freight operations.

Other ferry company's to use the Princess Alexandra Dock.

Southern Ferries used the linkspan at berth 2 between May 1971 and September 1975 with the EAGLE to Lisbon and Tangier, Algeciras was added in 1973.

Southern Ferries used the linkspan at berth 2 between December 1973 and November 1975 with the PANTHER to San Sebastian (Pasajes).

Aznar Line used the linkspan at berth 3 between June 1974 and September 1977 with the MONTE GRANADA and MONTE GRANADA to Santander.

Although not located in the Princess Alexandra Dock (Outer Dock).

Kloster Sunward Ferries used the linkspan at berth 49 between June 1966 and September 1966 with the SUNWARD to Vigo, Lisbon and Gibraltar.

Seagull Ferries used the linkspan at berth 49 between April 1972 and September 1974 with the SAINT CHRISTOPHE and SAINT GEORGE  to Le Havre (freight only).

Townsend Thoresen also used the linkspan at berth 49 between 1970 and 1975 for additional seasonal sailings to Cherbourg with the FREE ENTERPRISE II.

Although not located in the Princess Alexandra Dock.

Stena Line used the linkspan at berth 30 on the Itchen Quays between April 1991 and October 1996 with the STENA NORMANDY to Cherbourg.

The linkspan at berths 24/25 in the Empress Dock was initially used but Sealink/Stena Line preferred to use the more convenient linkspan at berth 30.

Stena Line used the linkspan at berths 24/25 in the Empress Dock and the linkspan at berth 30 on the Itchen Quays between May 1993 and October 1994 with the STENA TRAVELLER to Cherbourg (freight only).

Channel Freight Ferries used the linkspan at berth 30 on the Itchen Quays between January 2004 and December 2005 with the CFF SEINE and CFF SOLENT to Radicatel.

Someone previously mentioned that P&O Ferries we're taken over by Townsend Thoresen whilst still operating Southampton to Le Havre.

That's not the case.

After several strike's in the Port of Southampton during the early eighties P&O Ferries finally decided to abandon the port and transfer their Le Havre route to Portsmouth, commencing on the 03 January 1984.

P&O Ferries were purchased by European Ferries (Townsend Thoresen) on the 01 April 1985.

The Princess Alexandra Dock saw it's final cross channel ferry arrival with the DRAGON on the morning of the 03 January 1984.

The DRAGON had made it's final arrival that morning from Le Havre at her usual time of 07.00 and after discharging and loading any necessary equipment she sailed empty to Portsmouth to pick up her first departure from her new home port.

When P&O Ferries moved from Southampton to Portsmouth Britanny Ferries were responsible for their port operations.

Two photos of the Princess Alexandra Dock

First one show's the Princess Alexandra Dock in 1969.

Townsend Thoresen VIKING III at berth 6.

Townsend Thoresen VIKING I or VIKING II at berth 7.

Townsend Thoresen VIKING IV at berth 1

Normandy Ferries DRAGON at berth 2.

Swedish Lloyd PATRICIA at berth 3.

In the distance at berth 46 in the Ocean Dock is Shaw Savill Line SOUTHERN CROSS and the Cunard Line CARMANIA in the Trafalgar Dry Dock (number 6 Dry Dock, filled in during 1993).

The second image is recent and shows the totally redeveloped Princess Alexandra Dock as the Ocean Village Marina.

The third image show's the linkspan at berth 25 in the Empress Dock as well as the linkspan at berth 30 on the Itchen Quays.

The forth image is the former passenger terminal at berths 2/3 completed in 1967 for Normandy Ferries and Swedish Lloyd.

The fifth image is not great quality but it shows the following,

FREE ENTERPRISE II on layover at berth 6.

Townsend Thoresen VIKING I, II or III at berth 7.

Townsend Thoresen VIKING IV at berth 1.

Normandy Ferries DRAGON at berth 2.

Antarctic Survey Ship BRANSFIELD at berths 20/21 in the Empress Dock.

Cunard Line QUEEN ELIZABETH 2 at the former Ocean Terminal at berths 43/44 in the Ocean Dock.

Sitmar Lines FAIRSKY temporarily laid up at berth 45 in the Ocean Dock.

Seagull Ferries SAINT CHRISTOPHE at berth 49.

The sixth image show's the FREE ENTERPRISE III laid up at the former Townsend Thoresen terminal at berth 7 in the Princess Alexandra Dock in 1981 after Townsend Thoresen had relocated to berth 3 the previous year.

 

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2 hours ago, canberra97 said:

Photo was taken in 1977.

The two vessels in question are the VIKING VALIANT and VIKING VICTORY

VIKING VALIANT is on temporary Winter lay up and the VIKING VICTORY is covering for her.

VIKING IV is at her usual freight berth.

 

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I’m interested, C97, in your reference to FE2 using berth 49.  Do you know any further details about that - was it principally for layby purposes?

The early 70s timetables for FE2 don’t really show that there was a need for her to use anything other than the TT berth 7 (her scheduled calls at Soton were 1130-1230 and 2330-0030, when the Vikings were not in port).  And I remember a sailing on board her in 1974 when we departed from berth 7.  Your photo showing her at berth 6 also shows that she used the PAD. Was berth 49 mainly used when one of the Vikings was running late?

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