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3 minutes ago, Jim said:

Time. Relatively cheap pricing. Choice of destinations. Travel becoming more of a commodity than a luxury. You name it.

Using @cvabishop's Denmark example - even with a solid drive that's two full days of travel which for many could mean two extra days off work. Alternatively you can fly it in two hours with a plethora of options of departure points and times.

... And with so many flight options at relatively low prices those two extra days off work equate to another long weekend away somewhere.

That said, when it comes to sea travel right now, whilst this news about P&O is sad and a little unsurprising, I'm intrigued to see how the world of leisure travel changes in the next 24 months 

 

 

 

Surely this also ges back (and applies) to @IanN comment regarding the slower speed of the Galacia and the Spain route going back to a 24hr+ trip though? 

 

Certainly seems to be the same as what happened with the PoB - once the ship got too old, they just removed the route.

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Ferry travel was better in the early 80s when the Tor sisters were the best UK ferries in terms of comfort and class by a mile. Very sad to see where we are now with P&O.

Are you sure it's not the Duke of York to the US prosecutor's office? Ed. 

Post on Facebook, apparently from a member of crew, has stated that the company has announced that the Zeebrugge route will close for pax at the end of the year. 4 ships will cease sailing with P &amp

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17 minutes ago, The Ferry Man said:

Surely this also ges back (and applies) to @IanN comment regarding the slower speed of the Galacia and the Spain route going back to a 24hr+ trip though? 

 

Certainly seems to be the same as what happened with the PoB - once the ship got too old, they just removed the route.

Yeah but no but. I think with Spain there will always be a more solid market for travel with the sizeable ex-pat and holiday home owning community and those who want to take a relatively longer holiday. That market falls into the 'ferry is easier' category, and it seems like it's sufficient that they'll fill capacity that's available. It's not like the 2 night CF sailing is deserted - but it might not be first choice for a family with young kids. 

Where flying 'wins' is the ability for people to get somewhere quickly and take more short breaks than the traditional annual holiday.

An extreme example, but a blogger managed to get in 10 breaks/holidays for the same price as the average Brit (apparently!) spends on a holiday - https://howmanyholidays.com/about/

 

I think the P&O Bilbao withdrawal wasn't just down the the age of the ship though. They'd given up on Portsmouth in stages over previous years (moving Cherbourg to a one ship timetable with daft departure times, axing Le Havre after chartering expensive ships) and moved Bilbao to the 'shuttle' timetable meaning days and times of departures varied each week. I also recall the merger of the separate units back to the control of Dover resulted in short sea management trying to run longer crossings they didn't fully understand.

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16 minutes ago, Jim said:

Yeah but no but. I think with Spain there will always be a more solid market for travel with the sizeable ex-pat and holiday home owning community and those who want to take a relatively longer holiday. That market falls into the 'ferry is easier' category, and it seems like it's sufficient that they'll fill capacity that's available. It's not like the 2 night CF sailing is deserted - but it might not be first choice for a family with young kids. 

Where flying 'wins' is the ability for people to get somewhere quickly and take more short breaks than the traditional annual holiday.

An extreme example, but a blogger managed to get in 10 breaks/holidays for the same price as the average Brit (apparently!) spends on a holiday - https://howmanyholidays.com/about/

Fair points. Makes sense, just impressive how things vary from the Spanish routes to elsewhere!

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Ferry travel was better in the early 80s when the Tor sisters were the best UK ferries in terms of comfort and class by a mile. Very sad to see where we are now with P&O.

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10 hours ago, Richardbf91 said:

IMG-20201001-WA0011.thumb.jpeg.0e25cac0878c79b9891342da52ea993e.jpegToday I got delivered a model ship which I thought would look good in Brittany ferries colours so got it painted to order . Maybe I have predicted something 😂

Finally, some class for St Malo 🙊

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Pre-covid, you might expect ships like these to end up in the Mediterranean, perhaps with Moby Lines or similar; but now? 

Whatever happens to P&O Ferries, or what's left of it, I can see the Hull-Europoort route going to another operator, with the two ships, before too long. 

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51 minutes ago, VikingVoyager said:

Finally, some class for St Malo 🙊

Return to a 2 ship service, and proper amounts of space on the car deck too! No bow doors to go wrong either, perfect! 🤣

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1 minute ago, Tumnus2010 said:

Return to a 2 ship service, and proper amounts of space on the car deck too! No bow doors to go wrong either, perfect! 🤣

running overnight in both directions with loads of space for caravans? Well...we will be looking for just such a route...

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This article appeared today in the Yorkshire post:

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/po-ferries-must-start-deliver-after-landing-share-ps77m-government-contracts-3002199?fbclid=IwAR0EX-AvPiWTtpHYqTHzfQ1i052JQvFEKjUvKONsiPSJcV4Wk3D9tv4ooAA

I presume that it will have little effect, the route will continue to operate in a freight only mode? It still seems odd to me that the authorities in Belgium don't do something to try and incentivise pax to Zeebrugge.

 

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I read on a forum that P&O are planning to permanently ban foot passengers on Dover to Calais. I hope this is not true. Duty Free could well be coming back soon if the latest EU breakdown in negotiations is anything to go by, so going forward this may be a short sighted decision.

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I get the freight part - seems sensible to push it to other routes and speed up turnarounds/minimise activities needed. 

Foot passengers is sad news. Having been a legitimate foot passenger once following a car breakdown and having to leave it in Dunkerque for a week it was a helpful way home. I do wonder if an enterprising coach operator (or P&O themselves) will now sell terminal-to-terminal coach tickets. 

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Very sad day if true (sounds more likely) Loved doing trips over, have good memories fo a few non-landing day trips when I was younger.

Loking at the new ships... probably should have been easier to guess I suppose. So at the moment, the only route still accepting footies to France is Newhaven-Dieppe (with BF (fingers crossed) once this is over).

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Foot passengers is sad news. Having been a legitimate foot passenger once following a car breakdown and having to leave it in Dunkerque for a week i

Quite! We had to come back as foot passengers Caen/Portsmouth once when our car was involved in a collision in the French Alps and was transported back seperately. There will always be a requirement for foot passengers who for one reason or another don't have a set of wheels and are maybe unable to fly.

It appears that ferry companices may be using Covid as an excuse to cut costs by removing the facilities needed to accommodate foot passengers. If so then they should be called out on it. Especially on Dover/Calais when you are only on the boat for less than a couple of hours.

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I think BF said that foot passengers actually cost them money to transport. Clearly it does for all of them. Maintaining the infrastructure required is a cost too far these days. If it doesnt pay it goes. Hopefully when sanity returns to the world they will have a re think.

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12 minutes ago, Paully said:

I think BF said that foot passengers actually cost them money to transport. Clearly it does for all of them. Maintaining the infrastructure required is a cost too far these days. If it doesnt pay it goes. Hopefully when sanity returns to the world they will have a re think.

Trouble is once lost, it will be hard to get back I fear :(

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Foot passengers are foot passengers for several reasons.  I don’t drive, yet get collected in Cherbourg by a French national with his vehicle.  I expect quite a few people travel as footies and get collected the other end of their journeys.  Cyclists are sort of footies.  Those who have other transport organised besides being collected by someone.  Those footies also pay for cabins and meals the same as drivers.  I have just sent my passport renewal so I do hope BF do not follow suit as I am looking forward to, eventually, once this pandemic is over, getting back to my trips.  So much I want to do and see as a tourist.  Fingers crossed they keep us!  Footies may cost money,  but many do not drive for a variety of reasons, their reasons should not really deny them travel. 

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43 minutes ago, Khaines said:

Foot passengers are foot passengers for several reasons.  I don’t drive, yet get collected in Cherbourg by a French national with his vehicle.  I expect quite a few people travel as footies and get collected the other end of their journeys.  Cyclists are sort of footies.  Those who have other transport organised besides being collected by someone.  Those footies also pay for cabins and meals the same as drivers.  I have just sent my passport renewal so I do hope BF do not follow suit as I am looking forward to, eventually, once this pandemic is over, getting back to my trips.  So much I want to do and see as a tourist.  Fingers crossed they keep us!  Footies may cost money,  but many do not drive for a variety of reasons, their reasons should not really deny them travel. 

Totally agree. Spot on.

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2 hours ago, Khaines said:

 Cyclists are sort of footies.

As far as costs are concerned they are different, they use the car check in, security and passport control. If the ship is diverted to another port they are on their own ! 

2 hours ago, Khaines said:

Footies may cost money,  but many do not drive for a variety of reasons, their reasons should not really deny them travel. 

BF are a business and not a service and we will see that more and more as they remove cross subsidies in order to bring their finances back in order.

If foot passengers make a profit then the service will be available, if not it won't. It is possible that it will only be available on some crossings at some times of the year.

Those hard facts will also be true of other features like seasonal routes, free wifi, some a la carte restaurants etc..

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19 minutes ago, David Williams said:

As far as costs are concerned they are different, they use the car check in, security and passport control. If the ship is diverted to another port they are on their own ! 

Brest to Santander when PA's engine went boom would have been a long trek. Ed. 

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It's a long trek in a car too!  And with a further 400 miles on to Vigo it is why we decided to sail back to Plymouth from Roscoff that night with a further 500 miles back home to Edinburgh next day.

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Amazing how foot passengers are now considered a too expensive cost centre. It was only 50 years ago when foot passenger traffic was the largest sector of traffic carried and was king! If ports and ships were designed more foot passenger friendly, enabling simple side on gang plank access we wouldn't be having this conversation now!!

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2 hours ago, David Williams said:

If the ship is diverted to another port they are on their own ! 

Just before the lock out a few years ago PA got diverted to Brest, we had the car but our friends on bikes were put on the coach to Roscoff.

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