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2021 Timetables


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One season the port of Arromanches did have 2.5 million passengers and 500,000 vehicles.

I think we all make the mistake in not appreciating the ways and means. A port may have excellent facilities but if the access and approaches are limited HGV's and holiday traffic will look elsewhere.

The most sensible and logical option for the CI is to join the EU in their own right, France is a far more logical place for them to belong too anyway. Rhys

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Who pays what will depend on what the lease says.

Does it actually need a conversion to run instead of a Vissenti or the Pelican ?

Maybe the Barfleur replacement bit comes later,

Edited by David Williams
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4 minutes ago, Jim said:

If what jonno says is true, then I'm not sure why anyone else would!

BF confirmed this 12 months ago and the subject was discussed on here?

3 minutes ago, The Ferry Man said:

It does seem a very Stena thing to do though...

Cotentin's superstructure build has nothing to do with Stena it's all BF.

The lengthening of of Stena Lagan & Mersey was announced just before the E-Flexers began on the Irish Sea, the first, after a Covid delay, is now either heading to the Turkish dock or is already there. The 2nd Visentin will be lengthened once Stena Embla arrives at Belfast.

Stena Nova is now also heading to a dock for conversion prior to service with Corsica Ferries.

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Just now, jonno said:

BF confirmed this 12 months ago and the subject was discussed on here?

Your memory is better than mine @jonno! (That said I've been awake since 03.00 today and working since 07.00 so there's not much brainpower left...)

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Just now, Jim said:

Your memory is better than mine @jonno! (That said I've been awake since 03.00 today and working since 07.00 so there's not much brainpower left...)

I remeber it being discussed, Didn't realise (or remember) it had been confirmed though.

A year ago though things looked a lot different for BF...

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

The timetables... @Gareth you're spooky mate, well done!

For me it's a shame about Le Havre, the port offered a realistic alternative to Ouistreham. With the PNA controlling three of the four Normandy ports, SOMANOR etc etc... I wonder, more to come for us to mull over there I suspect.

The switching of the Rosslare sailing to Cherbourg makes sense when tied in with the rail link although I'm surprised that Connemara doesn't feature considering her charter is/was for a fixed period and Etretat's is on a rolling 6 month basis... maybe that's her attraction? Is this switch paving the way for Santona in 2023 to serve Rosslare, Cherbourg & Bilbao?

 

 

Connemara will stay in Le Havre can be reinforced by Normandie Express in summer

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BF have now put queuing software on their website (like Wickes did earlier this year). 

It is a great way of allowing those who get in a decent booking experience and gives other a queue !

image.thumb.png.044eeb75aa1af3da03e46912f2d63983.png

update - however once in, it still crashed with a socket timeout so is not set to the right limit !

Edited by David Williams
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21 minutes ago, LHCity said:

Connemara will stay in Le Havre can be reinforced by Normandie Express in summer

Are you seeing a different website to the rest of us?

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1 hour ago, David Williams said:

BF have now put queuing software on their website (like Wickes did earlier this year). 

It is a great way of allowing those who get in a decent booking experience and gives other a queue !

image.thumb.png.044eeb75aa1af3da03e46912f2d63983.png

update - however once in, it still crashed with a socket timeout so is not set to the right limit !

Perhaps they could do something similar with the queue for boarding,  but without the crash! Ed. 

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55 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Are you seeing a different website to the rest of us?

Gareth there is a point to what he's saying, Seine-Maritime have invested heavily in being part of SOMANOR, after November they'll will at some point still want to see a return on their investment.

 

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1 hour ago, David Williams said:

BF have now put queuing software on their website (like Wickes did earlier this year). 

It is a great way of allowing those who get in a decent booking experience and gives other a queue !

image.thumb.png.044eeb75aa1af3da03e46912f2d63983.png

update - however once in, it still crashed with a socket timeout so is not set to the right limit !

Got my bookings in this morning. Galicia in May, cabin 0985 on the way out & 0935 on the return. Looking forward to it!

Interesting that after booking your cabin you still need to book the Commodore lounge separately. The booking also shows inclusive dinners and breakfast but doesn't illustrate in which restaurant.

One for Ouistreham and another on Bretagne.

We'll be experiencing BF's colour coded system on Friday and it'll be interesting to see what food they've chosen in MSM's self service.

While I remember... there's a £30 charge for those wanting to access the Commodore Lounge sailing in a standard cabin.

Edited by jonno
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1 hour ago, jonno said:

Gareth there is a point to what he's saying, Seine-Maritime have invested heavily in being part of SOMANOR, after November they'll will at some point still want to see a return on their investment.

Thanks Jonno, fair enough.  You’d think they’d be in the schedules though.

And it would be a bit strange to have a ship named Etretat, for the Le Havre route, operating from Rosslare whilst a ship named Connemara, for Ireland routes, operates to Le Havre.  But no doubt we’ll find out in due course if there’s anything in it.

I’m intrigued by the BF relationship with Stena.  General understanding is that this is cosy - as evidenced by the Cotentin charter and the Flexer purchases.  Then BF apparently goes up “against” Stena on Rosslare - Cherbourg.  Is this with Stena’s blessing (to provide a coordinated service)?  And, by extension, has BF vacated Le Havre for Stena to step in and operate the route properly?  As part of some agreement?  It always seemed to me that Le Havre would be a more natural route for Stena than it is for BF.  Either way, I do think that what Le Havre really needs is an operator that can give the route proper priority (something which BF never can).

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40 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Thanks Jonno, fair enough.  You’d think they’d be in the schedules though.

And it would be a bit strange to have a ship named Etretat, for the Le Havre route, operating from Rosslare whilst a ship named Connemara, for Ireland routes, operates to Le Havre.  But no doubt we’ll find out in due course if there’s anything in it.

I’m intrigued by the BF relationship with Stena.  General understanding is that this is cosy - as evidenced by the Cotentin charter and the Flexer purchases.  Then BF apparently goes up “against” Stena on Rosslare - Cherbourg.  Is this with Stena’s blessing (to provide a coordinated service)?  And, by extension, has BF vacated Le Havre for Stena to step in and operate the route properly?  As part of some agreement?  It always seemed to me that Le Havre would be a more natural route for Stena than it is for BF.  Either way, I do think that what Le Havre really needs is an operator that can give the route proper priority (something which BF never can).

The wish to operate NORMANDIE in Le Havre / Portsmouth was a demonstration that BF wanted to increase the quality of service on this line. Also, there would be perfect room for 3 LH / PTS crossings per day with a single boat. The ETRETAT schedules last year were perfect.

What would STENA do better than Brittany Ferries and with which boat? The quality of the boat is important. P&O worked very well in Le Havre thanks to the quality of these vessels.

I also persist in saying that Brittany Ferries has a card to play by offering a Le Havre / Ireland connection just 2h15 from Paris. Cherbourg is the end of the world for a Parisian.

Edited by LHCity
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13 minutes ago, LHCity said:

I also persist in saying that Brittany Ferries has a card to play by offering a Le Havre / Ireland connection just 2h15 from Paris. Cherbourg is the end of the world for a Parisian.

They may have a card to play but not a lot of money in the pot.

Re Paris, Ouisterham is only 20 minutes longer than Le Havre so it is not relevant.

The last decent connection to Le Havre was P&O which ran 2 sister ships.

I would like to know the answer as if Le Havre is still running on the original schedule, I will be booking an overnight crossing

 

Re - The ETRETAT schedules last year were perfect.- They were not ! I stopped using the overnight Le Havre crossing when they started getting in early, there was no advantage over Ouistreham.

Edited by David Williams
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The other factor to bear in mind with Le Havre is the possibility/need to reintroduce a reinforced emergency service,  post Brexit, once again subsidised by the UK Government. 

That could kick in 1st January once the location of the Portsmouth lorry park has been finalised.

 

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5 hours ago, jonno said:

Is this switch paving the way for Santona in 2023 to serve Rosslare, Cherbourg & Bilbao?

It is a possibility, but it was discussed a few months ago that putting having an e-flexer would be a struggle to justify especially given reports suggesting that carryings weren't as expected and hence the whole port switching. 

I wonder if we would have seen Normandie at Rosslare had Honfleur been delivered? 

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40 minutes ago, LHCity said:

The wish to operate NORMANDIE in Le Havre / Portsmouth was a demonstration that BF wanted to increase the quality of service on this line. Also, there would be perfect room for 3 LH / PTS crossings per day with a single boat. The ETRETAT schedules last year were perfect.

What would STENA do better than Brittany Ferries and with which boat? The quality of the boat is important. P&O worked very well in Le Havre thanks to the quality of these vessels.

Completely agree that the quality of the ship is what matters.  But that’s exactly my point - BF has never prioritised putting a decent ship on the route.  They have used ships they have no use for elsewhere.  Even the Normandie plan (which I agree would have represented a step up from the Vissentinis) would have involved trying to find a use for a ship they could not sell and had no use for elsewhere.  But the Normandie plan is long gone, things have changed.

I am sure that there are no actual imminent coordinated plans for Stena to take over, but it is worth speculating about.  In answer to your question, no idea which ship, but pretty much anything they have would be better than the ships BF has used on the route (or even planned to use, barring their initial interest in taking on the P&O Olaus).  The route really needs two decent ships, which BF cannot provide but Stena could in spades if they wanted to.  But, as David says, it is now 15 years since the last decent provision on the Le Havre route, and the absence of a proper replacement for P&O over that entire 15 year period probably tells you all you need to know about how the companies that know what they’re doing see the viability of the route.

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14 minutes ago, BJSLIV said:

The other factor to bear in mind with Le Havre is the possibility/need to reintroduce a reinforced emergency service,  post Brexit, once again subsidised by the UK Government. 

That could kick in 1st January once the location of the Portsmouth lorry park has been finalised.

 

I don’t think that will happen or be on anyone’s radar.  It wasn’t actually needed last time, it was just a political stunt to make a negotiating point.  By 1 January (and possibly long before), the negotiations will be over and there will be no need for political stunts.  The reality is that there will not suddenly be a huge demand for extra capacity, over and above what is already catered for by market provision, so there is no need to provide for it.  There will undoubtedly be a need for shore-based infrastructure, but not more space on ships.

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33 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Thanks Jonno, fair enough.  You’d think they’d be in the schedules though.

And it would be a bit strange to have a ship named Etretat, for the Le Havre route, operating from Rosslare whilst a ship named Connemara, for Ireland routes, operates to Le Havre.  But no doubt we’ll find out in due course if there’s anything in it.

I’m intrigued by the BF relationship with Stena.  General understanding is that this is cosy - as evidenced by the Cotentin charter and the Flexer purchases.  Then BF apparently goes up “against” Stena on Rosslare - Cherbourg.  Is this with Stena’s blessing (to provide a coordinated service)?  And, by extension, has BF vacated Le Havre for Stena to step in and operate the route properly?  As part of some agreement?  It always seemed to me that Le Havre would be a more natural route for Stena than it is for BF.  Either way, I do think that what Le Havre really needs is an operator that can give the route proper priority (something which BF never can).

Stena's relationship with BF is purely about tonnage needs, Stena RoRo aren't particularly focused on competition. On the other hand Stena Line have been complementing fellow operators for a long long time, they know how to play well with others.

The Swedes also have the only livestock licence giving them exclusive rights between Ireland & France... It's one of the main reasons for buying Celtic Line and they will benefit hugely from BF's multi-modal rail link at Cherbourg giving them the opportunity to indirectly serve Spain.

Rosslare are extending one of their berths too in order to accommodate one of their 240m E-Flexers, they'll then be able to moor the two derivatives at the same time.

Speculating, Is it worth the cost to sail for longer and charge more in order to dock in Le Havre? It's quicker and cheaper to drive from Cherbourg if your cargo is destined for the vast logistics facilities in Rouen.

More speculation...As far as BF go concerning Le Havre, I wouldn't be surprised to see a hiatus, especially in the current climate which will probably last well into 2021 then see Barfleur at Le Havre post Cotentin.

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

It's quicker and cheaper to drive from Cherbourg if your cargo is destined for the vast logistics facilities in Rouen.

 

Cherbourg / Rouen 2h40 / 3h 

Cherbourg / Paris 4h

Le Havre / Rouen 1h

Le Havre / Paris 2h15

don't forget that truck drivers are limited in driving time in France !

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