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2021 Timetables


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Even with 3 Flexers, I suspect it would be more likely that they will go for daily sailings to Spain than 6 to Spain and 6 to Cherbourg.  I’m not sure that Pompey-Cherbourg will be a priority for them (unless perhaps it goes in to replace the Poole route).  Daily departures to Spain, at 0900 or 2200, and daily returns at either 1500 or 1700, would be a very neat use of 3 Flexers.  But they’d need a different crewing cycle than 7 days.

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One season the port of Arromanches did have 2.5 million passengers and 500,000 vehicles.

I think we all make the mistake in not appreciating the ways and means. A port may have excellent facilities but if the access and approaches are limited HGV's and holiday traffic will look elsewhere.

Yeah, the French BFenthusiasts website has been on strike from about 5 minutes before it went live. And that was 15 years ago. Ed. 

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51 minutes ago, Gareth said:

But they’d need a different crewing cycle than 7 days.

I think from what you've planned it would be 8 on 8 off, so gives the opportunity of a full weeks holiday if they wanted, must be an advantage in the holiday season to actually have a full week off.

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2 minutes ago, Solo said:

I think from what you've planned it would be 8 on 8 off, so gives the opportunity of a full weeks holiday if they wanted, must be an advantage in the holiday season to actually have a full week off.

 No, it would need to be a multiple of 3.  On the daily sailing model, each ship would do a round trip to Spain every 3 days.

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23 hours ago, Gareth said:

The notion of Pont Aven stopping sailing to Spain in 3 or 4 years' time is quite a sober thought.  (I see your logic Jonno but I hope you're wrong!).  In all the 43 year history of BF's route to Santander from Plymouth, there have only ever been 5 ships to serve it on a regular basis (excluding refit cover), and in 4 or 5 years' time Pont Aven will have been the route's "ship" for double the length of time of the next longest-serving vessel (VDL).  I do hope that, by the time it does come to retire her from the Bay, BF manages to order a proper bespoke replacement to follow in her wake - and not just a slow, lumbering Stena conversion like the behemoths they are sending to Portsmouth.  It will be the end of a magnificent era when she goes.

Cap Finistere is four years older than Pont Aven and there doesn't appear to be any imminent plan to retire her from sailngs to Spain. It is true that PA has served the route for far longer than any of her predecessors. but some of BF's former Santander ships (The original Armorique/ Quiberon/ Bretagne/ Val de Loire) have been assigned to new routes because of a need for increased capacity rather than necessarily being considered too old for Biscay crossings. Bretagne did quite a few sailings to Santander long after being replaced as the regular vessel for the route.

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I’m sure there will be people thinking that large parts of this thread have strayed quite a long way from the 2021 schedules.  When I get a moment I’ll split off all the posts speculating about the longer term and put them into their own thread.  It will take a while though, so until I get round to it, best to keep both 2021 and future timetable posts here.  Then they’ll all be in one place to deal with.

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This is official => Connemara and not Etretat !

https://lemarin.ouest-france.fr/secteurs-activites/shipping/37041-brittany-ferries-ouvrira-une-ligne-cherbourg-rosslare-en-mars

But on the schedules, this is Etretat again...

Someone who works at BF in Le Havre told me that there would be a question of CAP FINISTERE and / or KERRY being positioned in Le Havre. If this were the case, the timetables of other routes will still be modified.

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On 22/07/2020 at 09:16, LHCity said:

I have the impression that there could be a mix of COTENTIN / CAP FINISTERE on Le Havre / Portsmouth

 

On 20/07/2020 at 08:32, LHCity said:

The probability is that ETRETAT works in duo with CONNEMARA in Le Havre / Portsmouth (see timetables from September to November). These times could be like this until the GALICIA is delivered. After that, it could be CONNEMARA 6 days a week to Le Havre / Portsmouth and CAP FINISTERE once a week

 

On 22/07/2020 at 13:53, LHCity said:

Connemara will stay in Le Havre can be reinforced by Normandie Express in summer

 

On 22/07/2020 at 14:19, LHCity said:
 
This is the info I have.

 

On 23/07/2020 at 15:53, LHCity said:

For me something will happen between Connemara and Cotentin

 

20 hours ago, LHCity said:

One innovative thing for BF could be to assign NORMANDIE to Le Havre and leave MONT ST MICHEL to Ouistreham

 

42 minutes ago, LHCity said:

Someone who works at BF in Le Havre told me that there would be a question of CAP FINISTERE and / or KERRY being positioned in Le Havre.

 

Gosh, this is all so exciting.  I wonder what the next instalment will be! 😉😃

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53 minutes ago, Gareth said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gosh, this is all so exciting.  I wonder what the next instalment will be! 😉😃

“Hi Janet, our Portsmouth to Le Havre timetable for 2021 will be available over the coming months. ^BC“

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25 minutes ago, David Williams said:

Update, and there is a facebook answer that says the LH timetables will come out in the following months.

 

4 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

“Hi Janet, our Portsmouth to Le Havre timetable for 2021 will be available over the coming months. ^BC“

Well that seems to answer one question then - there is going to be a service of some sort.  Will be interesting to see what it is.

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3 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Well that seems to answer one question then - there is going to be a service of some sort.  Will be interesting to see what it is.

Well if it going to take months, I will book a Caen crossing for Easter now and may change it later when the timetable comes out. It will be interesting whether the Etretat really restarts in September.

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Difficult to conceive why it would take months if they already know in principle that they are going to release a timetable.  It could, of course, be another stall.  A few months takes us to the end of the current scheduled sailings.....

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1 hour ago, Gareth said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gosh, this is all so exciting.  I wonder what the next instalment will be! 😉😃

I heard that the Starship Enterprise was due to call there next week but they cancelled the visit. Defeating Klingons is one thing but the Le Havre dock workers are possibly the most terrifying adversaries in the known universe. Ed. 

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27 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Difficult to conceive why it would take months if they already know in principle that they are going to release a timetable.  It could, of course, be another stall.  A few months takes us to the end of the current scheduled sailings.....

Not if there is a totally new ship involved as that would require the cabins to be loaded into the system complete with descriptions.

Maybe they are planning on some new Joint Venture there .

When does the Dieppe subsidy end ?

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5 hours ago, Tregastel said:

Cap Finistere is four years older than Pont Aven and there doesn't appear to be any imminent plan to retire her from sailngs to Spain. It is true that PA has served the route for far longer than any of her predecessors. but some of BF's former Santander ships (The original Armorique/ Quiberon/ Bretagne/ Val de Loire) have been assigned to new routes because of a need for increased capacity rather than necessarily being considered too old for Biscay crossings. Bretagne did quite a few sailings to Santander long after being replaced as the regular vessel for the route.

4 years isn't imminent.

Cap Finistere hasn't been sailing up and down the Bay and across the Celtic Sea all of her life, she's done 10 years. It's about length of continuous service in the very deep swells of the Atlantic. Armorique did 4 years initially and Quiberon around 8 so could have quite easily managed longer, I doubt Bretagne did 4 years so again further use of her on the route could have been made. Val de Loire required substantial rebuilding in the early '90's in order to cope with the specific sea state. The work cost over €30 million well over €50m today. She sailed the route for 11 years.

Pont Aven was due to be replaced in 2017 with PEGASIS.

Email any naval architect and they'll say the same thing. In continuous service Pre millennium 15 years, post millennium 20 years, new builds from China 30 years. That figure drops the faster they travel.

to complete the circle in a way, Oscar Wilde sailed the Celtic Sea for 12 years.  

I agree that in many cases the ships were replaced due to greater need although why was Val de Loire chosen as the sacrificial lamb when BF were desperate for cash and needed to sell tonnage when she had more berths and three times the capability in terms of freight than Bretagne... was it because that if needs be she'd only have 4 or 5 years left in her for Spain but Bretagne possibly another 10?

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38 minutes ago, jonno said:

why was Val de Loire chosen as the sacrificial lamb when BF were desperate for cash and needed to sell tonnage when she had more berths and three times the capability in terms of freight than Bretagne... was it because that if needs be she'd only have 4 or 5 years left in her for Spain but Bretagne possibly another 10?

Various reasons, apart from being the oldest in the fleet. Heavy fuel consumption, DFDS being willing to pay over the odds, lack of a requirement for freight capacity on the St Malo route she was operating and the need for a smaller ship at Roscoff meaning the Bretagne could be redeoployed back to Portsmouth.

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44 minutes ago, jonno said:

4 years isn't imminent.

Cap Finistere hasn't been sailing up and down the Bay and across the Celtic Sea all of her life, she's done 10 years. It's about length of continuous service in the very deep swells of the Atlantic. Armorique did 4 years initially and Quiberon around 8 so could have quite easily managed longer, I doubt Bretagne did 4 years so again further use of her on the route could have been made. Val de Loire required substantial rebuilding in the early '90's in order to cope with the specific sea state. The work cost over €30 million well over €50m today. She sailed the route for 11 years.

Pont Aven was due to be replaced in 2017 with PEGASIS.

Email any naval architect and they'll say the same thing. In continuous service Pre millennium 15 years, post millennium 20 years, new builds from China 30 years. That figure drops the faster they travel.

to complete the circle in a way, Oscar Wilde sailed the Celtic Sea for 12 years.  

I agree that in many cases the ships were replaced due to greater need although why was Val de Loire chosen as the sacrificial lamb when BF were desperate for cash and needed to sell tonnage when she had more berths and three times the capability in terms of freight than Bretagne... was it because that if needs be she'd only have 4 or 5 years left in her for Spain but Bretagne possibly another 10?

Agreed. I think the prize for the longest serving ship on a UK-Spain service currently goes to Pride of Bilbao, which crossed the Bay twice a week from 1993 - 2010. She was 24 years old when P&O pulled out of Portsmouth.

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A notable element of the 2021 proposals is the evidence that Brittany ferries are predicting a massive move from Ireland towards direct services to the continent and away from the landbridge option through the UK post -Brexit.     They are stating that the very substantial expansion of their services to Ireland proposed - the largest in their history - is because market research is telling them that that is what hauliers want.       In the space of a little over two years , Ireland will have gone from one BF service a week, to two Cork-Roscoff services, a Bilbao Rosslare service and a new service to Cherbourg.        Exciting times for direct Ireland -France links.

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To be honest, irrespective of the UK withdrawal from the EU, I’m surprised this hasn’t been what the hauliers would have wanted all along.  Faced with two ferry journeys totalling (including waiting) probably well over 10 hours coupled with long driving hours within the UK, against a single ferry journey of (including waiting) less than 20 hours coupled with a completely refreshed driver on arrival at destination, I’d have thought the direct ferry would have been more appealing every time (?)

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38 minutes ago, Gareth said:

To be honest, irrespective of the UK withdrawal from the EU, I’m surprised this hasn’t been what the hauliers would have wanted all along.  Faced with two ferry journeys totalling (including waiting) probably well over 10 hours coupled with long driving hours within the UK, against a single ferry journey of (including waiting) less than 20 hours coupled with a completely refreshed driver on arrival at destination, I’d have thought the direct ferry would have been more appealing every time (?)

I don’t understand the logic of a driver being paid to do nothing for a day. Owner operators don’t have a choice, but international freight companies do, 

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1 minute ago, Gareth said:

Driving through France, to Spain, versus crossing directly to Spain is a direct analogy.  Direct crossing to Spain is far more popular, even with the international freight companies.

Yes and the Pelican does well with trailers.  Back to the UK with some freight companies taking on the customs agent role small operators will get squeezed and will have limitations operating in Europe. I would imagine far more trailers or containers getting shipped, that has implications for BF

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1 minute ago, Gareth said:

Driving through France, to Spain, versus crossing directly to Spain is a direct analogy.  Direct crossing to Spain is far more popular, even with the international freight companies.

I agree , and I had this conversation with a few drivers onboard Stena Horizon last year , they told me they could be  heading to Portugal  , Italy , Southern France and even North Africa . It saves on fuel and tolls by taking the direct route when heading that far south .

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