2021 Timetables

[LHCity]

13 minutes ago, TonyMWeaver said:

Poole/Cherbourg - Cotentin: January 1st until April 3rd

Poole/Cherbourg - Barfleur: From April 5th

Portsmouth/Le Havre - Etretat: January 31st until March 21st

Portsmouth/Le Havre - Barfleur: March 22nd until April 3rd

Portsmouth/Le Havre - Cotentin: From April 4th

Very good news 🙂

[chid679]

So are we expecting Le Havre to remain Freight only? At least for the whole of 2021?

[LHCity]

7 minutes ago, David Williams said:

However, Le Havre is one of France's premier freight ports and it makes sense for BF to run a freight only ferry there.

Cherboug is in a better location to support some of the other BF routes. Ouistreham is too close to Le Havre and is the major BF port.

This is not new. I don't see what prevents opening traffic to passengers in April. In fact, the information I have goes in that direction. Cotentin can quite accommodate passengers.

Edited November 23, 2020 by LHCity

[LHCity]

The question is why not send Etretat to Cherbourg on 31 December and assign the Cotentin to Le Havre at the same time?

Edited November 23, 2020 by LHCity

[David Williams]

16 minutes ago, LHCity said:

The question is why not send Etretat to Cherbourg on 31 December and assign the Cotentin to Le Havre at the same time?

A very good question, does the Etretat fit in Poole ?

[TonyMWeaver]

4 minutes ago, David Williams said:

A very good question, does the Etretat fit in Poole ?

Yes, she does easily. With Etretat going in April, it makes sense to leave her where she is rather than move her to a different route.

[LHCity]

Note that BARFLEUR will be able to use the double ramp in Le Havre... it hadn't happened since NORMAN SPIRIT.

 

[Fine Whine]

 

1 hour ago, LHCity said:

This is not new. Cotentin can quite accommodate passengers.

No she can’t, not in her current and original layout.  I’ve posted this before but you appear to chose either not to listen or understand (no offence meant whatsoever). She is a freight ship and is designed as such. One day BF will turn her into a modified form of Armorique but thanks to the wretched virus that plan is currently on hold. The only passengers she carries are those with a freight ticket.
 

Heres the official BF description of her, I can post the link in French if you wish...

Chris

@LHCity J’apprécie beaucoup votre soutien pour le port du Havre comme tout le monde ici, c’est vraiment formidable mais il faut bien vérifier vos faits.....

 

Cotentin Launched

 

Brittany Ferries' freight-only vessel Cotentin provides a significant increase in capacity on the Poole to Cherbourg service during the week when not operating her weekly direct service to Santander. The weekend service 'opens' up a bypass service to Santander, enabling transporters to avoid the weekend driving ban in France.

The freighter provides space for 120 articulated vehicles year-round in 2200 lane metres. Accommodation for freight drivers is in 120 two-berth, en-suite cabins. The ship was constructed at a cost of some €80m in Finland and underlines Brittany Ferries' long-term commitment to its freight business.

 

[The Ferry Man]

Now if I can only persuade them my large folding bike is a "articulated vehicle"... I could even add a bike trailer and say I'm carrying freight!

[Fine Whine]

On 21/11/2020 at 11:12, Fine Whine said:

 Jim did mention in the past that posting links only in French should be discontinued or discouraged as they are not particularly helpful.

 

And just in case anyone fancies using the words “double standards”, I asked @LHCity very nicely to get his facts straight before posting...

[TonyMWeaver]

29 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

One day BF will turn her into a modified form of Armorique but thanks to the wretched virus that plan is currently on hold.

I don't think it's been put on hold, I believe the plan was scrapped.

[quibby]

36 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

 

No she can’t, not in her current and original layout.  I’ve posted this before but you appear to chose either not to listen or understand (no offence meant whatsoever). She is a freight ship and is designed as such. One day BF will turn her into a modified form of Armorique but thanks to the wretched virus that plan is currently on hold. The only passengers she carries are those with a freight ticket.
 

Heres the official BF description of her, I can post the link in French if you wish...

Chris

@LHCity J’apprécie beaucoup votre soutien pour le port du Havre comme tout le monde ici, c’est vraiment formidable mais il faut bien vérifier vos faits.....

 

Cotentin Launched

 

Brittany Ferries' freight-only vessel Cotentin provides a significant increase in capacity on the Poole to Cherbourg service during the week when not operating her weekly direct service to Santander. The weekend service 'opens' up a bypass service to Santander, enabling transporters to avoid the weekend driving ban in France.

The freighter provides space for 120 articulated vehicles year-round in 2200 lane metres. Accommodation for freight drivers is in 120 two-berth, en-suite cabins. The ship was constructed at a cost of some €80m in Finland and underlines Brittany Ferries' long-term commitment to its freight business.

 

Whilst I agree BF will not operate her as a passenger vessel, to be fair to LHCity, Stena did just that.

[LHCity]

53 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

 

No she can’t, not in her current and original layout.  I’ve posted this before but you appear to chose either not to listen or understand (no offence meant whatsoever). She is a freight ship and is designed as such. One day BF will turn her into a modified form of Armorique but thanks to the wretched virus that plan is currently on hold. The only passengers she carries are those with a freight ticket.
 

Heres the official BF description of her, I can post the link in French if you wish...

Chris

@LHCity J’apprécie beaucoup votre soutien pour le port du Havre comme tout le monde ici, c’est vraiment formidable mais il faut bien vérifier vos faits.....

 

Cotentin Launched

 

Brittany Ferries' freight-only vessel Cotentin provides a significant increase in capacity on the Poole to Cherbourg service during the week when not operating her weekly direct service to Santander. The weekend service 'opens' up a bypass service to Santander, enabling transporters to avoid the weekend driving ban in France.

The freighter provides space for 120 articulated vehicles year-round in 2200 lane metres. Accommodation for freight drivers is in 120 two-berth, en-suite cabins. The ship was constructed at a cost of some €80m in Finland and underlines Brittany Ferries' long-term commitment to its freight business.

 

Thank you for this additional information, but you say without justifying. What prevents the Cotentin from being opened to passengers? There are garages, there are cabins, there are public spaces... if I travel with my car what prevents you from getting on board? Ditto if I am a pedestrian knowing that a bus can get us on board as on Etretat.

[Cabin-boy]

8 hours ago, The Ferry Man said:

Now if I can only persuade them my large folding bike is a "articulated vehicle"... I could even add a bike trailer and say I'm carrying freight!

And if you can get Khaines into the trailer you can say you are carrying live freight on Barfleur thereby killing both your birds with one stone. 

Ed

[Cabin-boy]

8 hours ago, Fine Whine said:

And just in case anyone fancies using the words “double standards”, I asked @LHCity very nicely to get his facts straight before posting...

Chris, you can't use the word 'vraiment' in Normandy. It's 'vachement'! I learnt that at the age of 11 not far from Le Havre. Ed. 

[Fine Whine]

@LHCity I think the clue to all this is in the written text, space for 120 articulated vehicles (camions) with 120 cabins. In this day and age, and especially with the wretched Covid virus still not defeated, lorry drivers expect to have a cabin to themselves. Cotentin (nicknamed cocoa tin when she was operating from Cherbourg) is currently a freight vessel. You need to book some sort of accommodation and as far as I can see there are no reclining seats. To make her pay you want/need to fill her with trucks paying let’s say £500 per crossing rather than a car at £100 or footie at £25. 
Please I’m not trying to be rude but she was built by BF to replace the ageing Coutances and Purbeck, both freight only vessels. As I’ve said earlier, once modified she can expand her offering because there is loads of space, just not yet.

I didn’t realise Stena accepted passengers, thanks for that @quibby. 

Chris

[Cabin-boy]

11 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

I didn’t realise Stena accepted passengers, thanks for that

If they were taking a lot of unaccompanied trailers then I guess filing the cabins with foot passengers was a sound idea to generate a bit of extra revenue. 

Ed

[Paully]

Plus if they were to take passengers car and or foot they would have to re engage Passenger handling staff, both ashore and on board. The CEO said sometime ago that carrying foot passengers cost BF money. Thats why they stopped carrying them on all routes..Another reason the Cotentin will not be carrying passengers other than truckers.

[Khaines]

2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

And if you can get Khaines into the trailer you can say you are carrying live freight on Barfleur thereby killing both your birds with one stone. 

Ed

He’d have to get a large one..😂

[Cabin-boy]

4 minutes ago, Khaines said:

He’d have to get a large one..😂

OK. An over-size load in which case you probably get priority-boarding too. It's a win-win situation all round. 

Ed

[jonno]

Four things for me...

Stena spent money on Cotentin improving/altering the onboard accommodation in order to allow limited passenger traffic, this remains in place.

There is a German trip review here: https://www.schiffsjournal.de/stena-baltica-entspannt-mit-der-frachtfaehre-nach-schweden/ which google will auto translate.

Secondly, like it or not Seine - Maritime now have a financial interest, they are a component of SOMANOR... fact of life. They are now part of the Brittany Ferries family.

They will want a return on their investment which will ultimately mean passenger & freight sailings to and from Le Havre.

It's a question of when not if.

It doesn't matter if the capacity is 200 or 2000 passengers. It's not a competition, BF as a group don't need to worry about market share on the western channel.

Look at it this way. Would the Brittany Ferries group invite another player into the fold diluting their profit if the bean counters hadn't pored over the future projections first?

Thirdly, In terms of logistics and infrastructure Ouistreham is at bursting point, a viable alternative is needed sooner rather than later. This fact hasn't changed due to Covid or anything else. Honfleur was the first step, a ferry designed to carry fewer passengers and their vehicles. Normandie is a very popular ship, relocating her to Le Havre in order to satisfy the future percentage of passengers unable to book a crossing to Ouistreham made perfect sense.

Finally The talk about driving times and bridge tolls as obstacles are moot as nearly 20% of the passenger traffic driving from the Caen port head in that direction anyway.

Think about it... 20% is close on 200,000. There is business there and money to be made.

 

 

 

 

[colin]

One might describe certain aspects of her as being transport cafe standard, perhaps with a whiff of routiers thrown in. The accommodation resembles some hotels I have slept in in Japan ....

Economie ---

[VikingVoyager]

With modern booking engines (insert comment here) it ought to be possible to make limited passenger spaces available once the required amount of freight is booked (and depending on whether that is accompanied or unaccompanied). The numbers we are talking about wouldn't need additional staff.

Is the Le Havre timetable still a mix of day sailing and overnighters? As a family, we'd be unlikely to book a cabin on a day sailing so the fact that it doesn't have a toilet is moot.  Who books a cabin for Newhaven?

We travelled as passengers from Liverpool to Dublin on Norbank - nearly ten years ago now. no problems.

[David Williams]

19 minutes ago, jonno said:

It's a question of when not if.

Definitely, at present this is serving a UK freight contract. When the covid restrictions are over and lorry drivers have to share cabins again, they can have the 'economy' cabins and tourist traffic can use the 'Comfort' cabins. 4 lorry drivers over 2 cabins sharing a toilet is better than they have on the other routes. I suspect that foot passengers won't be welcomed due to the limited capacity and costs.

I imagine that the plan is to turn it into an Amorique 2 in a few years time.

 

[IanN]

16 minutes ago, colin said:

One might describe certain aspects of her as being transport cafe standard, perhaps with a whiff of routiers thrown in. The accommodation resembles some hotels I have slept in in Japan ....

Economie ---

Spent a couple of night's in a hotel in small town Japan visiting a Nissan supplier. No beds and very small. If required the rooms could be rented by the hour (It was explained by our host that they were used by married couples seeking a bit of privacy) The restaurant consisted of a vending machine in the corner and the mini bar was the same.