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Would you still go away if stayed home 2 weeks?


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To lighten the mood (for some but not many I suspect) I was in a pub last night and it was nearly back to normal (hurrah!).  Anyone not willing to 'risk it' stayed out, the others had smiles on their faces.... it made me feel better, although the hangover today has given me second thought!

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Yes but during the more modern ones, 1957, '67-70 when millions in the U.K died and herd immunity was used there was no instant media, everyone got on with life and HMG didn't pander to the overly pol

I would still go. However, because the threat of quarantine was enough to worry the other half we cancelled our trip 48 hours before sailing (and got a full refund).  We were due to sail home on the d

Throughout England there were 100 hospitalised cases during week 33 spread across 51 of the 300 authorities. That's fact based on hospital reports. The week before the West Yorkshire lockdown eff

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24 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

There is a very basic problem in that the significant minority of younger people who are flaunting the restrictions are actually not at much risk themselves. Many seem to be asymptomatic whilst others, unless they are very unlucky indeed, will only suffer from a mild illness (although there are some worrying indications that there may still be long tem side effects)

But in spreading the bug around willy nilly they go on to infect more vulnerable people, often through family contacts with parents/grandparents etc. to whom the virus is a very real death threat. What happened in the care homes is indicative of the risk to the elderly.

Being of the older generation and with first hand knowledge of two people who have died unpleasantly from Covid-19 I am understandably very cautious and I am unhappy that so many people seem to be doing their very best to keep the virus in general circulation - see the reports of house parties on the news tonight.

As for the travel restrictions and other measures, yes, it is a broad brush approach but in the circumnstances and given the gaps in our knowledge how could it be otherwise?

There has to be an acceptable compromise somewhere along the way between restrictions and personal freedom but the various authorities are still struggling to reach that balance which is not helped by so many people considering that the rules don't apply to them if they stop them doing whatever they want.

Colin you can't stop the spread of a virus, that's the bottom line. It's our ignorance of this fact of life which allows us to be brainwashed into believing any old crap broadcast.

However you try to manipulate or lessen the outbreak it will always return when any of those measures put in place are removed.

Everyone in this country and those around us simply have to except that these viruses are higher up the food chain than we are, they can't be controlled and they can't be eradicated we learn to co-exist with them. No virus with a mammalian or avian reservoir in the history of mankind has ever been wiped out.

We can all stay at home and enjoy are gardens or whatever, there will be zero spread and everyone will jump for joy... Go outside and the virus will be alive and well ready to strike because it's natural lifecycle hasn't been completed. 

For all of those believing that self distancing, self isolating and keeping to yourself is the answer I'll say this... In 6 months time most if not all of those who are out and about and in some cases currently contributing to the rising infection level creating herd immunity will have antibodies. Those preferring the former will be in the same boat they're in now, just as vulnerable.

 

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The gospel according to Jonno, well for a start nobody has proven how long the antibodies last and I’m sure the governments realise that there will be community transmission for as long as we have the virus , I’m sure we all have our views on here about the virus and how we best can live with it but I think most people will be following the government advise that’s designed now to minimise people dying, I won’t be having a virus party like the anti vaxers do that’s for sure.

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12 minutes ago, Paully said:

Jonnos wife is an eminent Specialist in exactly this field..I think he might have more on the inside track than many of us.. I'll go with his view

With all due respect you don't know that I am not also an eminent specialist in the field. I'm not by the way but I would be very surprised if Jonno didn't concede that smallpox was a virus with a mammalian reservoir that has been wiped out apart from very small research samples held in a very few high security laboratories.

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13 minutes ago, Paully said:

Jonnos wife is an eminent Specialist in exactly this field..I think he might have more on the inside track than many of us.. I'll go with his view

I will go with government advise and WHO guidelines which is formed by multiple specialists in the field but you go with one guys advise if you like.

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Everybody seems to be their own expert and everybody has their own answers so who am I expected to believe? I don't doubt Jonno's wife is an eminent specialist but I'll bet there are other eminent specialists who hold a different view. I am currently suffering from the effects of an eye stroke in January which has pretty much b******d up my left eye. The first specialist I saw who is among the top 100 in the world reckoned it was 'fixable'. His eminently well qualified colleague who specialises in the field and who I was passed on for treatment was equally optimistic. He is now marooned in Greece as a result of the Convid virus and a third consultant continued to treat me with injections. I am now under a 4th consultant with equally excellent credentials who is of the opinion that the damage is permanent. Go figure.

Seems people on here are advocating the Brazilian 'solution' herd immunity and literally to hell with the oldies! C'est La Vie...

In the meantime I will not go inviting an infection.

There is a difference in this case that unprecedented resources are being thrown at the problem both in terms of trying to find a vaccine and in mitigating the effects of the virus if you do catch it. I just hope that human ingenuity under pressure will come up with a solution of sorts as it has in the past. So I'll wait and see before diving into the local pub or getting on an aeroplane.

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I agree with Jonno.  As my folks in their late 70’s said to me the other day. Life HAS to go on, it is here and there is little they can do, accept be clean living, which as a rule they are. Life is there to be enjoyed, we are all in the mixing pot for the unlucky number. 

Those that wanna lock themselves up until a vaccine is developed, good for them. Those that wish to carry on with life or rather need to carry on, let them too.

i never trust ‘authorities’ that have to cover their backsides.... WHO and such like are only interested in their word. Not my interests.
 

 

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1 minute ago, 5_ShortBlasts said:

I agree with Jonno.  As my folks in their late 70’s said to me the other day. Life HAS to go on, it is here and there is little they can do, accept be clean living, which as a rule they are. Life is there to be enjoyed, we are all in the mixing pot for the unlucky number. 

Those that wanna lock themselves up until a vaccine is developed, good for them. Those that wish to carry on with life or rather need to carry on, let them too.

i never trust ‘authorities’ that have to cover their backsides.... WHO and such like are only interested in their word. Not my interests.
 

 

No disrespect but to say that about the WHO sounds like something out the Trump handbook and look how well America are doing handling the virus.

You trust who you want but I won’t be relying on a post on here to form my opinion.

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Cvabishop, i am in an age group of little to no risk.. what are you expecting me to do for you? Do I have to wrap myself in cotton wool also? I can then not earn money that goes into the system to keep those in need of being wrapped up the financial support needed to provide that.

I am not expecting or willing to waltz into an old people’s home! I have no need to and it would be putting those at most risk, more so.  However if you and I pass each other in the shopping aisle, I am masked and tend not to sneeze on people anyway, he way I was brought up!  If I go to a bar, I am not shaking hands, I have my own hand sanitizer, I try to not be close to people.., again I tend not to sneeze on them. I also assume those in said bar are of similar fitness to me. 
 

does that make me selfish?

 

 

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Neilcvx, I assume to be likened to Trump is not ideal. Personally I see as much good in trump as I see bad, so I will take the comment in good spirit! I respect his willingness to say what he thinks...

And yes, I do not trust the WHO. They are only interested in their field. Based on what the WHO say along with others, our leaders then make a balanced decision based on all other factors... to suggest decisions of this nature are purely based on one side of an argument scare the hell out of me.... 

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Those that wanna lock themselves up until a vaccine is developed, good for them. Those that wish to carry on with life or rather need to carry on, let them too.

No way am I locking myself up, I am simply avoiding those situations when I might come into excessive contact with people who don't care. I go shopping, my wife and I go for drives and walks. We visit the coast for a walk along the prom and eat in open air cafe's. I carry on with my hobbies, we regularly meet up with our daughters and relatives who are equally careful to avoid unnecessary risks. Except for cancelling our holidays in Greece our lifestyle is not hugely different from normal. Just get up a bit earlier to visit the supermarket.

Basically I just like to make a point of avoiding stupid and uncaring people who are happy to risk passing infection on to their vulnerable elderly relatives and behaving in a generally selfish fashion and to hell with anybody else. Seems reasonable to me.

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cva - fair and good for you! And  agree it is the best way to deal with it, as you are making decisions based on your own informed logic.  I am amazed how as a nation, we need to rely on others to tell us how to deal with this.  Given information, some duff, some accurate, as adults we make reasoned and hopefully balanced decision based on OUR situations.  

I am so saddened we are knackering what we have come to expect in life, I have many friends in the Merchant Navy, in the ferry/cruise and oil, they are all 'at risk' with pay cuts, loss of terms and potential redundancies.  Death is one thing but losing a job is one of the top stressors for health.  My beef is health is not Covid one sided.  People are losing their livelihoods and certainly of the 600 odd professional crew in my old job, I am one of a handful who have thankfully remained in the industry I am in.  the other 590 are desperately looking to find a career or skills set they can slot into to get food for their families AND keep the mortgage.   

Turning to my close friend on a certain Black Hulled Liner, the compliment of 1200 crew is down to 100.  The ships are not expected to operate until April next year, ships are being sold and everyone is well, crapping themselves.

I feel sorry for those out their who are not able to risk mixing in more normal activities we are now allowed to do under guidelines, but I also feel sorry for my ex colleagues and many others I know in similar positions running into the 1000's, who fear for their careers and homes.  Sorry to be negative but Covid-19 is only the start of our problems . . . 

So it comes back to informed choices, based on information from specialists in the field, such as the WHO to give facts and fiction and for us to then look at our lot and decide what is best for our situation!

Edited by 5_ShortBlasts
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2 hours ago, Rattler43 said:

With all due respect you don't know that I am not also an eminent specialist in the field. I'm not by the way but I would be very surprised if Jonno didn't concede that smallpox was a virus with a mammalian reservoir that has been wiped out apart from very small research samples held in a very few high security laboratories.

Smallpox was never a virus with a mammalian reservoir, It's a specific infection seen only in humans in two forms. It never mutated and it's strength was the same from start to finish.

The only time smallpox has infected animals is in a lab. The other nasties in the family can and do have an animal reservoir but not variola.

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2 hours ago, cvabishop said:

Everybody seems to be their own expert and everybody has their own answers so who am I expected to believe? I don't doubt Jonno's wife is an eminent specialist but I'll bet there are other eminent specialists who hold a different view.

You're spot on Colin it's why SAGE is in such a state, many meetings turned into pi**ing contests and why PHE is now defunct.

All i'll say is that the missus has worked extensively on SARS, MERS, Avian & Swine flu and unlike many others within the groups doesn't have a professional agenda to see how far up the slippery ladder she can get.

It's all very London centric and every decision is about protecting the capitol.

 

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Not wanting to get political but I suspect if SAGE is in a state then it’s to do with the way it’s decisions are being influenced or part implemented by the government and its advisers , the decision to disband PHE is also purely a government face saving exercise, it’s all a bit much IMO the bad mouthing of all the experts who sit on SAGE as career driven experts as some on here don’t like their opinions, it’s worth pointing out SAGE is an advisory group they don’t make government decisions far from it in some cases.

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12 minutes ago, IanN said:

Hi Jonno 

Is the new body new or is it just a rehash / rename of PHE

The “National institute for health protection” is its replacement which is being run by Dido Harding due to her success with the track and trace app and program.the new body has been designed more to handle pandemics than PHE

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11 hours ago, neilcvx said:

No disrespect but to say that about the WHO sounds like something out the Trump handbook and look how well America are doing handling the virus.

You trust who you want but I won’t be relying on a post on here to form my opinion.

Would this be the same science brigade that told us in March that facemasks were no good.....now they tell us they are essential for the survival of mankind?

Indeed as you say you trust who you want

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10 minutes ago, Paully said:

Would this be the same science brigade that told us in March that facemasks were no good.....now they tell us they are essential for the survival of mankind?

Indeed as you say you trust who you want

There was no research done on face masks in March as it was a new virus they do research on the new virus and found out face masks are of a benefit.

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2 hours ago, neilcvx said:

The “National institute for health protection” is its replacement which is being run by Dido Harding due to her success with the track and trace app and program.the new body has been designed more to handle pandemics than PHE

not getting political but there's no prizes for guessing who Dido used to work for:

https://www.ft.com/content/3cc76ad4-4d75-4e07-9f6d-476611fbb28f

Edited by dojidave
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27 minutes ago, Paully said:

Would this be the same science brigade that told us in March that facemasks were no good.....now they tell us they are essential for the survival of mankind?

Indeed as you say you trust who you want

You seem to want perfection from experts on every subject from day on And that was never going to be likely. The experts gave us their best Consensus view based on the evidence at the time. They have then updated it as time went on. The other option is ignoring all experts like trump and bolsonaro do and we see where that got them.

Give me science based conclusions, however flawed, to reactionary fools.

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19 hours ago, jonno said:

Pandemics fade by running their course, not by quarantining and ad hoc lockdowns, that just prolongs the agony.

I'm definitely in broad agreement with you but I do see the value in taking some measures to keep pressure on the NHS manageable. I think, with hindsight though, they were probably too strict and have served to create far bigger problems (other illness, a wrecked economy, educational chaos...)

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13 hours ago, cvabishop said:

No way am I locking myself up, I am simply avoiding those situations when I might come into excessive contact with people who don't care. I go shopping, my wife and I go for drives and walks. We visit the coast for a walk along the prom and eat in open air cafe's. I carry on with my hobbies, we regularly meet up with our daughters and relatives who are equally careful to avoid unnecessary risks. Except for cancelling our holidays in Greece our lifestyle is not hugely different from normal. Just get up a bit earlier to visit the supermarket.

Basically I just like to make a point of avoiding stupid and uncaring people who are happy to risk passing infection on to their vulnerable elderly relatives and behaving in a generally selfish fashion and to hell with anybody else. Seems reasonable to me.

We are behaving in the same way as you - we ate out once on holiday and we haven't been to any cafes or bars since all this began, so perhaps we are actually being stricter.  My point is that I think this behaviour is entirely compatible with an overseas holiday by ferry. 

As I wrote some time ago, my thoughts rest with those who are exceptionally vulnerable (and their closest family) as for them life cannot go on as normal

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