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Would you still go away if stayed home 2 weeks?


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3 hours ago, neilcvx said:

The “National institute for health protection” is its replacement which is being run by Dido Harding due to her success with the track and trace app and program.the new body has been designed more to handle pandemics than PHE

So 100% new personnel? or just the same people with a new boss. Sorry I suspect its a deflection exercise, 

9 Aug 2020 - MINISTERS have admitted it is unable to demonstrate the effectiveness of its flagship coronavirus track and trace system - as Scotland's 
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Yes but during the more modern ones, 1957, '67-70 when millions in the U.K died and herd immunity was used there was no instant media, everyone got on with life and HMG didn't pander to the overly pol

I would still go. However, because the threat of quarantine was enough to worry the other half we cancelled our trip 48 hours before sailing (and got a full refund).  We were due to sail home on the d

Throughout England there were 100 hospitalised cases during week 33 spread across 51 of the 300 authorities. That's fact based on hospital reports. The week before the West Yorkshire lockdown eff

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3 hours ago, mattofe7 said:

Give me science based conclusions, however flawed, to reactionary fools.

Throughout England there were 100 hospitalised cases during week 33 spread across 51 of the 300 authorities. That's fact based on hospital reports.

The week before the West Yorkshire lockdown effecting three authorities there were zero cases in those regions, the government decision was based on a rise of 14 cases... 14 cases in 3 authorities... It was reactionary and was not based on scientific evidence but rather on an algorithm. The science actually indicated then as it does now that no lockdown in the area was or is necessary.

This hasn't come from a suited bloke in front of a podium in London who hasn't practised medicine in many years but from those medical experts on the frontline actually doing the job... medical experts who aren't being listened to.

It's compulsory for shoppers to wear masks but not shop staff?

It won't be compulsory to wear a mask in an office or factory workplace?

I can form an extended family with a couple I haven't seen in three years and live in Wales, stay under their roof & share their bathroom and enjoy physical contact...hugs all round.

None of that is scientifically based flawed or otherwise.

Paully is right about masks, there's no conjecture. If any mask was ok why is it that when you attend hospital for even a blood test, you're told to remove all of them which aren't surgical quality and wear one provided.

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10 minutes ago, jonno said:

If any mask was ok why is it that when you attend hospital for even a blood test, you're told to remove all of them which aren't surgical quality and wear one provided.

Is any mask ok though? I thought the idea was that any mask is a lot better than no mask (if worn and used correctly). Does wearing a mask gain you entry to Care Homes?

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We’ll masks are compulsory for shop staff in Scotland as well as shoppers unless the workers are behind a panel , I wore my normal every day mask throughout my procedure wasn’t asked to remove it or replace it until I required oxygen but that’s another story , maybe things are different in England , but certainly there’s research been done now as to why face coverings are beneficial , but then of course some folk don’t like wearing them so find any excuse not too and base their decision on the things we knew about a new virus in March.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

https://www.wsj.com/articles/face-masks-really-do-matter-the-scientific-evidence-is-growing-11595083298

 

 

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18 hours ago, 5_ShortBlasts said:

To lighten the mood (for some but not many I suspect) I was in a pub last night and it was nearly back to normal (hurrah!).  Anyone not willing to 'risk it' stayed out, the others had smiles on their faces.... it made me feel better, although the hangover today has given me second thought!

Not to bad a night then if you can remember it made you happy🙂. You have to make your own choices and as long as you respect others then good luck to you.

My point is that if you are my age the current restrictions apart from foreign travel are having little effect. The wife and I  are just being  more careful.  The wife's monthly ladies who lunch meeting has been cancelled (a group of retired office workers from a local school) .So no big deal for us really, 

Twenty - thirty years old's single unable to go to work with what was previously a busy social life, gym's, clubs, bars, & all the other things this age group does (so long ago I forget)  

Then a big deal? Add to that employment / financial worries occasionally they are going to  let off steam probably not excusable but understandable? 

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I attended hospital for a blood test and follow up monitoring my bone marrow transplant (now almost 7 years ago) a few weeks back and was issued with an 'approved' mask at the reception desk not to be removed within the clinic!  What I found disconcerting was that the waiting areas which probably accommodate up to 50 or so outpatients was almost deserted - whether that was because of plans to limit numbers or because patients are staying away I don't know, but I'm sure there can't have been a massive slump in cancer/leukemia cases. Either way it must be terrifying for those waiting diagnosis and treatment.

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17 minutes ago, nottingham said:

I attended hospital for a blood test and follow up monitoring my bone marrow transplant (now almost 7 years ago) a few weeks back and was issued with an 'approved' mask at the reception desk not to be removed within the clinic!  What I found disconcerting was that the waiting areas which probably accommodate up to 50 or so outpatients was almost deserted - whether that was because of plans to limit numbers or because patients are staying away I don't know, but I'm sure there can't have been a massive slump in cancer/leukemia cases. Either way it must be terrifying for those waiting diagnosis and treatment.

For various reasons, Mrs Jim has spent a few nights in the last couple of weeks in hospital, including a visit to A&E.

As an inpatient, and in both occasions having had a negative Covid test (either planned or as part of the A&E admission) she didn't have to wear a mask unless being moved around. Whilst the hospital was, on the face of it, very quiet, things were very much working as normal and the patient care was, largely, excellent.

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If it were just a virus that made you feel ill and weak for a few weeks then went away then no problems with carry on. However, its doing some very random stuff to a lot of random people albeit mostly the elderly and those with other medical conditions it seems to cause more problems with. I don't know if I get it whether I will be

A-Dont know I had it.

B-Ill for a few weeks then fine

C-Ill but then have long term lung issues and stamina issues. (Keep it clean).

D-Be on ventilator and doomed.

I am not prepared to gamble with those odds.

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43 minutes ago, adicat said:

If it were just a virus that made you feel ill and weak for a few weeks then went away then no problems with carry on. However, its doing some very random stuff to a lot of random people albeit mostly the elderly and those with other medical conditions it seems to cause more problems with. I don't know if I get it whether I will be

A-Dont know I had it.

B-Ill for a few weeks then fine

C-Ill but then have long term lung issues and stamina issues. (Keep it clean).

D-Be on ventilator and doomed.

I am not prepared to gamble with those odds.

I know this guy and prior to contracting covid he had no health issues other than very mild asthma. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-53679080

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I didn’t have to wear a mask in the ward but that was after 2 Covid tests and I still wore my own mask when moving around the hospital, it was pretty much business as normal at the hospital but only 4 instead of 6 folk in the room, plus when the Mrs brought my stuff in she had to use a hospital mask gloves and apron.

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12 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

I didn’t have to wear a mask in the ward but that was after 2 Covid tests and I still wore my own mask when moving around the hospital, it was pretty much business as normal at the hospital but only 4 instead of 6 folk in the room, plus when the Mrs brought my stuff in she had to use a hospital mask gloves and apron.

Our local hospital was split into red and green areas - green being for those having had a negative swab. For various reasons I was allowed to come and go to see Mrs Jim (mostly so she could have time with Baby Jim*). Surgical masks were available on the hospital door, but they were happy with those wearing their own. The hospital worked on the assumption that as members of the same household as Mrs Jim was negative so was I. Turnaround time on the A&E test was 2 hours.

On both occasions/admissions we were told the weekly inpatient C-19 total for that week was 3. Down from 700 at the peak.

(* Pretty sure that Baby Jim believes that almost everyone outside her immediate family has a rectangular blue face)

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Again people are confusing the ramblings of politicians and their pseudo science and tailored facts, with science. Never let the facts get in the way of polling and shifting blame.

All masks are not the same. The materials matter as do the wearing (fit, length of time etc) and handling of masks. Handling is generally atrocious with little understanding of aseptic technique, turning most masks into breeding grounds for all sort of biological ills to be passed on. Masks have their place if used properly and in the correct situation, but the mask wearing policy has become a population placating placeholder for politicians with no idea of how to get us out of the mess they have got us into.

I also notice in the great mask wearing country of China, for the Galacia delivery ceremony photos, no-one is wearing masks.

The science of masks, their effectiveness and the best method is science, a course of discovery in search of better answers. The field is still open for research. The study Neil quoted above was looking at airborne aerosols, whereas the actual virus is about around 50 to 100 times smaller. I have read several ongoing studies like the one using computational fluid dynamics to model mask air flow, and not just when the mask is fresh as most studies are, that are still searching for the best answer that is sustainable in the long term.

Masks for all as a sledgehammer to crack a nut is not the final solution. An example of ongoing research that changes the everyday modus operandi is the temperature checks band wagon everyone leapt on and now has been shown to be of little to no use. Again medical practitioners as Jonno said are not being listened to. A friend who goes for dialysis three times had their temperature taken twice for the first week and a half and then the hospital didn't bother as they worked out early on, there is no point. Companies are now using it as virtue signalling, like many of the ineffective fashion masks are.

Sweden and Denmark have come to different conclusions on masks and their efficaciousness in everyday situations. A recent study in Denmark showed that face shields are more effective that face masks as they also protect another virus entry point, the eyes. And before everyone jumps up and down about Sweden, death rates etc, only in the longer term will we actually see whether they are correct, but that won't do in the instant answer world.

Plus the virus itself is still being studied so who knows, and for me the jury is still out on the best mask wearing methodology etc.

Then there is the future. The Wuhan labs amongst others are studying animals and virus they carry. The situation is of such concern that many countries are / were involved, even the US until Trump had an about turn hissy fit early this year as they were Chinese. Why? There are millions of viruses out there, of which Wuhan was studying around 2000, a good proportion of which were Coronaviruses, as they represent a continuing threat to humans. Are we going to curl up and just die as a civilisation, bio hazard suit up to pop to the shop just in case, or find a workable practical long term solution as Coronaviruses are not going away?

COVID is serious, but the current course of action is doing untold harm, medical and otherwise, to the population in other ways that need to be considered too, but out of site out of mind to most.

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37 minutes ago, Jim said:

Our local hospital was split into red and green areas - green being for those having had a negative swab. For various reasons I was allowed to come and go to see Mrs Jim (mostly so she could have time with Baby Jim*). Surgical masks were available on the hospital door, but they were happy with those wearing their own. The hospital worked on the assumption that as members of the same household as Mrs Jim was negative so was I. Turnaround time on the A&E test was 2 hours.

On both occasions/admissions we were told the weekly inpatient C-19 total for that week was 3. Down from 700 at the peak.

(* Pretty sure that Baby Jim believes that almost everyone outside her immediate family has a rectangular blue face)

Brilliant and congratulation

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4 hours ago, nottingham said:

I attended hospital for a blood test and follow up monitoring my bone marrow transplant (now almost 7 years ago) a few weeks back and was issued with an 'approved' mask at the reception desk not to be removed within the clinic!  What I found disconcerting was that the waiting areas which probably accommodate up to 50 or so outpatients was almost deserted - whether that was because of plans to limit numbers or because patients are staying away I don't know, but I'm sure there can't have been a massive slump in cancer/leukemia cases. Either way it must be terrifying for those waiting diagnosis and treatment.

Authorities are stressing to hospitals that they now must return to full strength in all departments in order to offer patients the same services as they did pre Covid.

Harrogate has 400 beds and usually is at an average of 90% capacity- 360 inpatients. During one particular week at the end of May when the pandemic was quite contagious in the community the hospital had 67 inpatients.

Until recently i was back to a blood test every fortnight, Phlebotomy was always empty meaning I could walk straight in.

I've said it before... at no time during the pandemic has any English hospital outside of Greater London been under any threat of reaching capacity.

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Without a vaccine there are I guess just 2 strategies, suppression or herd immunity hoping you don't get it again once you have antibodies. Keep doing lockdowns is a bit like King Cnut and the tide, eventually you have to admit defeat or you let it run its course and hope that the final outcome is not too damaging. 

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Here we go again! The weekly stampede is on, this time Croatia. With Germany reporting a high rat of cases from people returning from Croatia according to daily bbc snippets, why do we want people to return without quarantine again giving them time to get back so they don't have to. Surely our government sees what is happening elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, adicat said:

Here we go again! The weekly stampede is on, this time Croatia. With Germany reporting a high rat of cases from people returning from Croatia according to daily bbc snippets, why do we want people to return without quarantine again giving them time to get back so they don't have to. Surely our government sees what is happening elsewhere.

Does it not show that the number of people abroad as a percentage of the population is so small it will have little effect on the overall spread of the virus So the government is not that concerned. At least it will take the education debacle out of the headlines for a few hours

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Perhaps BF with PIP / Millbay should set up one of these for arrivals too.

https://www.wearefinn.com/topics/posts/heathrow-airport-sets-up-first-government-testing-facility-for-arrivals/

Or even move it onto the ferry itself to reduce queues at disembarkation. The new cabin service.

This would add to the actual data on the prevalence of the virus comes from France, Spain and enable some intelligent quarantine choices.

Edit: correction

Edited by Shipping Forecast
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16 hours ago, hhvferry said:

Trying to take the successful outcome of the lockdown (not overwhelming the NHS with exponentially-growing hospital cases) as evidence the lockdown was wrong strikes me as particularly puzzling.

I guess the question should be: were any hospitals in Sweden under threat of reaching capacity? (no lockdown)

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On 18/08/2020 at 12:11, veryoldbear said:

We have a booking to France at the end of the month returning mid September. We are obviously keeping an eye on things, but we are not going to cancel or postpone yet. If we have to shutdown for 14 days when we get back so be it. As retired persons it is not a big deal.

Hi very old bear, likewise we have a booking Portsmouth to St Malo at the end of the month. We still intend to travel as the COVID rates where we are caravanning are pretty low. FCO is acting on national rate which is high from high density populated areas. Are you travelling in a Motorhome or caravan? We saw a photograph from a Brittany Ferry after the announcement, a lot of cars but no caravans or MH’s that we could see.

regards

Richard

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1 hour ago, Eriba said:

Hi very old bear, likewise we have a booking Portsmouth to St Malo at the end of the month. We still intend to travel as the COVID rates where we are caravanning are pretty low. FCO is acting on national rate which is high from high density populated areas. Are you travelling in a Motorhome or caravan? We saw a photograph from a Brittany Ferry after the announcement, a lot of cars but no caravans or MH’s that we could see.

regards

Richard

Hi Richard,

I fear we've chickened out and put ourselves back a month.

Jim

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Masks.

UK and France.

March, masks in desperately short supply, so governments play down their value to avoid panic and prioritise health workers.

August, plenty available, so governments can now urge or compel us to wear them, largely to protect others if we are infected.

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March, masks in desperately short supply, so governments play down their value to avoid panic and prioritise health workers.

August, plenty available, so governments can now urge or compel us to wear them, largely to protect others if we are infected.

Well, that sounds logical enough....

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