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Oh dear, another scrubber monstrosity


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1 hour ago, Chef said:

Seeing the word "scrubbers" reminds me of my Irish Navy days when it was used to refer to a certain type of the opposite sex who frequented the local watering holes , ugly comes to mind, which I suppose is appropriate for what we are seeing these days being fitted to ships .

Any port in a storm Chef.....any port🤣

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3 hours ago, Chef said:

Seeing the word "scrubbers" reminds me of my Irish Navy days when it was used to refer to a certain type of the opposite sex who frequented the local watering holes , ugly comes to mind, which I suppose is appropriate for what we are seeing these days being fitted to ships .

Reminds me of a story an ex Irish Navy I worked with told me years ago. He was from Dublin and I remember him telling me that when he was being kitted out at the naval base in Haulbowline, Cobh he was asked what size rubber dollies (local Cork name for trainers) he wanted? He was simultaneously shocked and overjoyed as he thought they were referring to another type of "rubbers" 😁

Edited by ccs147
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Love regional names for stuff - never heard of rubber dollies for shoes before.  What they got mistaken for, I think is universal!! I often comment on the nicknames for the long tailed tit birds which are called bumbarrels or flying teaspoons in some parts of the country.  Sparrows are spadgers to some.  Love to know how these names came about and how loads of slang originated.

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16 hours ago, cvabishop said:

One effect of the Covid virus is that many of the 'ships of character' will have their lives cut short and the cruise industry will be left with identikit large scale vessels differing only in their internal redecoration schemes. Just another step along th way to 'crusing' simply becoming mobile all inclusive resort hotels.

Is there not the possibility that it could work the other way round? The big modern (pile 'em high) ships may become unviable as the market tanks leaving the more distinctive ships going to interesting places? Of course, any ship with the opportunity to create spacious cabins and oversized dining facilities might be at an advantage if distancing becomes the norm.

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I don't think so. The new ships have been getting bigger and bigger because the more customers they can cram in the cheaper the cost per person. Older, smaller ships are more expensive to run as they have to provide a similar range of facilities to a smaller number of guests. It's all about economies of scale.

The high end 6 star ships are an entirely different market and charge accordingly like top class hotels.

As far as desinations are concerned, the mass market ships would prefer you to stay aboard and spend your money there in their shops and optional facilities. Some years ago whe did some cruises with Thomson on their older smaller ships and typically the vessel would dock around 8am and leave at 6pm giving you a full day ashore to explore plus time for an excursion. These days the time ashore is usually much less, frequently just a few hours, and it can take a long time to get on and off these monsters.

If when the smaller mass market ships have gone there is still over capacity then I think the earlier large ships will follow and they are likely to go to the breakers as the big operators will not want them to be bought up by  somebody else and run in competition with them. When Cunard sold QE2 there was a stipulation that the ship would not be put into service but either used in a static role or scrapped.

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52 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

As far as desinations are concerned, the mass market ships would prefer you to stay aboard and spend your money there in their shops and optional facilities. Some years ago whe did some cruises with Thomson on their older smaller ships and typically the vessel would dock around 8am and leave at 6pm giving you a full day ashore to explore plus time for an excursion. These days the time ashore is usually much less, frequently just a few hours, and it can take a long time to get on and off these monsters.

When we were on our honeymoon around the Baltic, I was most surprised to overhear conversations of people who literally went to spend a week on the ship with no desire to get off. One gentleman spent his week in the casino, whilst his wife spent it in the spa.

Encountered a similar couple on our trip around Japan where there was much frustration that because our itinerary was largely domestic local laws applied and hours were very limited to when we were out in international waters each evening.

Each to their own - but the whole reason we travelled halfway across the world was to see it!

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57 minutes ago, Jim said:

When we were on our honeymoon around the Baltic, I was most surprised to overhear conversations of people who literally went to spend a week on the ship with no desire to get off. One gentleman spent his week in the casino, whilst his wife spent it in the spa.

Encountered a similar couple on our trip around Japan where there was much frustration that because our itinerary was largely domestic local laws applied and hours were very limited to when we were out in international waters each evening.

Each to their own - but the whole reason we travelled halfway across the world was to see it!

You've got a business idea there Jim, sail off shore outside of territorial waters and drop anchor no burning fuel steaming to ports that the passengers are not interested in.

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2 hours ago, VikingVoyager said:

Is there not the possibility that it could work the other way round? The big modern (pile 'em high) ships may become unviable as the market tanks leaving the more distinctive ships going to interesting places? Of course, any ship with the opportunity to create spacious cabins and oversized dining facilities might be at an advantage if distancing becomes the norm.

As I understand it the larger ships can operate profitably with around 50% capacity. This means they employ fewer crew and the overheads are reduced. The idea if necessary is to sell all the outside cabins only (and a few premium inside cabins if they exist) at slightly higher prices to offset any loses. The passengers feel they are getting a more exclusive service due to the increased space and shorter queues.

Ed 

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58 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

As I understand it the larger ships can operate profitably with around 50% capacity.

TUI has been sailing at a third capacity. At the moment even revenue neutral will help. In the U.S. Disney, RC, Carnival etc are hoping to be allowed 70% occupancy when they restart.

Apart from distancing, until the situation is over, the ships have to set isolation areas of cabins in case someone on board is contaminated, so will never be full for a while. TUI have just had to use one for 12 crew that tested positive (plus 24 in bubble) with no symptoms, but then tested negative.

59 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

This means they employ fewer crew and the overheads are reduced.

This automatically helps meet crew quarters distancing requirements too.

4 hours ago, VikingVoyager said:
20 hours ago, cvabishop said:

One effect of the Covid virus is that many of the 'ships of character' will have their lives cut short and the cruise industry will be left with identikit large scale vessels differing only in their internal redecoration schemes. Just another step along th way to 'crusing' simply becoming mobile all inclusive resort hotels.

Is there not the possibility that it could work the other way round? The big modern (pile 'em high) ships may become unviable as the market tanks leaving the more distinctive ships going to interesting places? Of course, any ship with the opportunity to create spacious cabins and oversized dining facilities might be at an advantage if distancing becomes the norm.

There is space for both, people want different things, it just the ratio that will change. Personally the floating Soviet era style block of flats with disneyesque veneer ships are not for me. Never mind ugly scrubbers, the complete ships are monstrosities.

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  • 1 month later...

Most cruise ships do have scrubbers now. The same rules apply to them. Its just in most cases the funnels are so huge so no ugly addons were required.

If you look however at some of Royal Caribbean’s ships you can see the telltale signs. Oasis and Allure (in Poole bay now) of the Seas each have an extension to one of the twin funnels, making them rather mis-balanced but it’s not strikingly noticeable. The subsequent ships in the class Harmony and Symphony were built with scrubbers so have a different funnel design (both being bigger). If you look at some of the oldest and newest photos on Marine Traffic for Oasis/Allure, you’ll see what I mean. I won’t post as they’re not my photos, but if you Google crew centre for Allure of the Seas you’ll see a photo of all her exhaust coming out of the scrubbers. And photo of her with a white hull is pre-scrubber.

The same applies to Independence of the Seas; her original very slender funnel has had scrubbers built on at the sides and put behind plating. They just do a more aesthetic job of it as cruise ships are about “the look”, but you can certainly see the funnel is now far wider.

More modern ships like Anthem of the Seas (in Poole bay now) and Celebrity Edge have them built in from scratch. Same goes for Britannia, and they’re retrofitted to other ships like Azura and Ventura as those funnels are huge.

If you look at MSC’s latest new builds like Grandiosa, Bellissima etc there’s what’s clearly a scrubber exhaust between the twin funnels. I’ve been on MSC Seaview and they’re definitely there and integrated into the enormous funnel.

One of the key factors is the funnels tend to be “blown up” in size to keep them in proportion with the rest of the scale of the ship, so there’s already a lot of empty space in there.

Of course it’s doesn’t matter for LNG powered ships like P&O’s new Iona which has a tiny funnel; perhaps it also implies small funnel = low emissions.

Some ships also run on gas turbines too like the Celebrity Millennium quartet. I did a behind the scenes tour where it was explained that diesel generators were retrofitted as far cheaper but the installation of scrubbers etc means that the original gas turbine power plant is more economically viable. After a 14:00 departure from Porto delayed to 06:00, they put the foot down through a force 10 in the Bay of Biscay and we got up to about 28 knots, think they had everything running full pelt for that. Queen Mary 2 also has power from gas turbines as well as diesel.

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8 minutes ago, Danim24 said:

I'd rather look at scaffolding, and spend my time with scaffolders than 4500 - 6000 other people!

If you're lucky you could get invited to the British Scaffolding Society's annual cruise and have the best of both worlds. Apparently the after-dinner entertainment is a big draw with the pole-dancing being of exceptionally high standard. Everything comes off, except the hard hats of course. 

Ed

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