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Initial thoughts of Galicia (10th Dec)


Northern_Si
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5 minutes ago, David Williams said:

Not a lot, all the fixed and staff costs exist and the food is prepared whether eaten or not.

Indeed , plus the catering staff will adjust production based on weather predictions to avoid waste which is a cost saving , although the food cost of an item is much smaller than the labor cost but every little helps , kitchen managers/ head chefs day to day work is based on a profit and loss statement , they live or die by it .

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1 hour ago, David Williams said:

Not a lot, all the fixed and staff costs exist and the food is prepared whether eaten or not.

I and I have been criticised for not being green. What a waste of energy cooking it preparing it and then throwing it away! It just shows the all inclusive policy is flawed. If as I suspect they take one look at the forecast and then adjust the amount prepared they will pocket your inclusive meal price.

I have no problem with all inclusive though it's not for me. I would like to see an addition to the booking site similar to the one for cabins where you can select from say 4 options No Meal - to Full A la carte with other options in between. Or by price to spend on board

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1 minute ago, IanN said:

I and I have been criticised for not being green. What a waste of energy cooking it preparing it and then throwing it away! It just shows the all inclusive policy is flawed.

I still cannot believe a brand new ferry does not have any EV charging points.  Considering the expected life of the ship, it seems a missed opportunity.  I believe Irish Ferries have a few onboard and do not even charge customers to use them.  I cannot believe on a 24hr crossing it will require that much power.

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49 minutes ago, Northern_Si said:

I still cannot believe a brand new ferry does not have any EV charging points.  Considering the expected life of the ship, it seems a missed opportunity.  I believe Irish Ferries have a few onboard and do not even charge customers to use them.  I cannot believe on a 24hr crossing it will require that much power.

I would have thought that it would be a logistical nightmare, however the BF answer a few weeks ago to someone was that the Galicia has some:-

https://twitter.com/BrittanyFerries/status/1332314457146597379?s=20

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1 minute ago, David Williams said:

I would have thought that it would be a logistical nightmare, however the BF answer a few weeks ago to someone was that the Galicia has some:-

https://twitter.com/BrittanyFerries/status/1332314457146597379?s=20

Now that is good news.  All I need now is a EV with 300+ mile range and I'm happy.   Wait a sec ... my village in Spain has no chargers LOL

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14 minutes ago, Northern_Si said:

Now that is good news.  All I need now is a EV with 300+ mile range and I'm happy.   Wait a sec ... my village in Spain has no chargers LOL

If you find one with a genuine 300 plus then please let me know looked at the model three Tesla but it seems real life is nothing like the claimed

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5 minutes ago, IanN said:

If you find one with a genuine 300 plus then please let me know looked at the model three Tesla but it seems real life is nothing like the claimed

A friend has just got a model 3 on lease ... I will have to see how he gets on.

At the moment, my 3.5L V6 Hybrid manages 48MPG on the motorway so not in a massive rush to change, especially as I managed to do the 800KM from Santander to my place on a single tank.

Also with an EV, how are you supposed to have fun in that tunnel near Bilbao?  

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Can you imagine the problems with cables running all over the car deck? Do all cars use the same chargers yet or would they need different plugs for different cars? The only answer is to park electric cars down the side of the deck, where they put the trucks that need plugging in.

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4 minutes ago, Solo said:

Can you imagine the problems with cables running all over the car deck? Do all cars use the same chargers yet or would they need different plugs for different cars? The only answer is to park electric cars down the side of the deck, where they put the trucks that need plugging in.

Or have charging points in the floor?

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6 minutes ago, Solo said:

Can you imagine the problems with cables running all over the car deck? Do all cars use the same chargers yet or would they need different plugs for different cars? The only answer is to park electric cars down the side of the deck, where they put the trucks that need plugging in.

It will take some operational planning yes, however it would certainly be possible through advanced booking (which I believe is in the pipeline).

Irish Ferries already offer this service: https://www.irishferries.com/uk-en/frequently-asked-questions/general-information/electric-cars/ 

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1 hour ago, Solo said:

Can you imagine the problems with cables running all over the car deck? Do all cars use the same chargers yet or would they need different plugs for different cars? The only answer is to park electric cars down the side of the deck, where they put the trucks that need plugging in.

Not sure where the technology is at yet but induction charging in the deck is a possibility (similar to that used with mobile phones)

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On 15/12/2020 at 12:08, Northern_Si said:

Walked down to the Commodore Lounge (21:30 in the evening) to find it was shut and only open till 21:30, i.e. closed on the Thursday night.  Had a bowl of beef strew, some tapas and red wine in the Tapas bar instead. 

This seems like a bit of a con - you are on board for two nights (for the benefit of no one other than BF) but can't use the facilities.

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2 hours ago, Northern_Si said:

A friend has just got a model 3 on lease ... I will have to see how he gets on.

At the moment, my 3.5L V6 Hybrid manages 48MPG on the motorway so not in a massive rush to change, especially as I managed to do the 800KM from Santander to my place on a single tank.

Also with an EV, how are you supposed to have fun in that tunnel near Bilbao?  

At my age  Fun and Driving any where near Bilbao are diametrically opposite. A Nissan Note Diesel as the method of conveyance also does not lead to fun. Our Leaf is quite entertaining with Boy Racers at the lights 

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1 hour ago, Gareth said:

Or have charging points in the floor?

Large garages have an overhead system as they are flexible and cover the middle areas not next to a bulkhead, with little structural alteration. This would also keep them out of wet / dirt / mechanical damage being on the deck too. Induction charging will difficult as the steel deck will affect the charging and induction chargers are usually level with the surface for protection which would mean cutting up the deck. Can't see that being popular.

If large numbers of cars start charging on short cross channel journeys then the issue especially with older ships will be available electrical power. Have Stena thought ahead with E-Flexers with additional electrical generation capacity and the necessary infrastructure is ready for charging equipment to be installed as the world changes?

1 hour ago, Solo said:

or would they need different plugs for different cars?

In Europe they are settling on Type 2 / CCS charging connectors but adapters are available other combinations

2 hours ago, Northern_Si said:

my village in Spain has no chargers LOL

Every plug is a potential charger. 2 / 3 pin is slow but can do it, fine for 100% if not going anywhere for a day. So there are millions of charging points available.

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25 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Why is there an expectation that ferries must provide charging points? I don't expect to be able to refuel my combustion engined car from the ship's tanks during a crossing?

Good point Colin, but it’s probably because electric cars need recharging far more often than petrol or diesel cars need refuelling.

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Why not?

Combustion fuels are user unfriendly and come in lots of different grades making carrying and supply difficult, whereas electrons are very user friendly in comparison, flexible in use, and only come in one type (unless anyone has discovered some new from of matter).

Would also make a great differentiator between BF and the Tunnel / non electric friendly ferries. Arrive, topped up and ready to travel, a great way to start a trip. Electric car users are already selecting places to stay based on charging abilities. The electricity doesn't have to be free but that would be a nice bonus.

To limit the number of points required, on longer sailings the charging cables could be moved between vehicles.

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46 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Why is there an expectation that ferries must provide charging points? I don't expect to be able to refuel my combustion engined car from the ship's tanks during a crossing?

Because it is a value proposition and considering you can charge your car at your supermarket people will expect the capability.  Like it or not we are moving to a EV society over the next 10 to 15 years.  At the moment it is difficult to charge the car at the port while the Channel Tunnel has banks of Super Chargers.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think it should be free but when your car is basically sat on a rather large mobile electricity generation plant it seems daft not to.  Considering how many containers are plugged in for the crossing... how hard can it be to extend the infrastructure.

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Good point Colin, but it’s probably because electric cars need recharging far more often than petrol or diesel cars need refuelling.

Which neatly encapsulates their drawbacks at the moment! 😀

Of course it would be convenient, I don't dispute that, but that doesn't mean that it should be provided as a freebie. Dare I suggest such failities should be .... chargeable?

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22 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Why is there an expectation that ferries must provide charging points? I don't expect to be able to refuel my combustion engined car from the ship's tanks during a crossing?

In most cases they're not necessary as the Lithium Ion batteries won't lose any of their charge even on BF's longest routes, the drain due to internal 12v systems is imperceptible. They're the same tech as what's in your phone but built to a much higher standard. Most manufacturers recommend leaving around a 50% charge in them.

The biggest problem for electric cars is heat, in a climate which reaches 40 degrees during the summer the batteries permanently lose capacity so they should be parked under cover. The cold doesn't effect them at all. 

Bottom line, if a northern European ferry operator has them installed it's to generate income rather than running the risk of having an electric car with no power holding up disembarkation.

The 32 amp IP44 sockets they have onboard to power HGV trailers is a different matter as they are very heavy consumers and could determine whether an expensive load is spoiled or not. Many Greek ferries have step owns on these in order to allow travellers in their vans to 'camp' on board using thier 16 amp EHU cable. The van essentially becomes their cabin.

Closer to home, for motorhome fridge's the simple solution is to not stock it prior to the trip. most may run on 230v, 12v or gas but the 1st option isn't available, the 2nd only works when the engine is running and the 3rd must be isolated prior to boarding. The battery/230v powered compressor fridges would probably kill a standard lead acid single 110AH leisure battery en route to Spain if you're under cover with no chance of a trickle charge from solar as you're only supposed to drain them down to around 40% before damage occurs.

As an anecdote, back in 2013 when we had a compressor fridge in our panel van we found the twin solar panels and twin leisure batteries were fully charged and powered the fridge in the summer sunshine parked on the stern of Cap Finistere sailing home from Spain.

 

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3 minutes ago, jonno said:

n most cases they're not necessary as the Lithium Ion batteries won't lose any of their charge even on BF's longest routes, the drain due to internal 12v systems is imperceptible.

At the moment the powertrain system at 400/800V and 12V system are supplied by separate batteries. There are many reasons for this including safety. They are also different types of batteries - L-ion for motive and commonly lead acid for 12V systems due to their differing requirements / price points.

However the 12V battery will usually be topped up by DC/DC inverter from the main battery pack when it gets low so with even small l-ion batteries the 12V system will run for a very long time and would easily power a fridge for the voyage (need an electric motor home). More advanced electric cars have levels of sleep mode to preserve power further.

30 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Which neatly encapsulates their drawbacks at the moment!

For everyday, the majority of car users only do 30-40 miles on average so shorter range vehicles are fine. However with battery advancements the range will be able to increase significantly. There are 500+ mile cars in testing currently but like any car the range depends greatly on how you drive it. Doing 0-60 in 2.3 seconds a few times will eat into your power slightly.

For ferry companies on board charging would be a good marketing feature. Wait at a charger before boarding the train in the drain, or have the car charged while you enjoy a relaxing journey on a BF ferry. There is no contest!

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48 minutes ago, jonno said:

Anyone know how popular the charging points at Millbay are?

Not very, only low power though so will take a longer time to charge. Also very expensive and seem to have constant issues according to reports.

More powerful, reliable and cheaper chargers near the terminal are at Lidl (you have to buy something to use it), BP Pulse across the road from Lidl both in opposite direction off Sainsbury's roundabout. Both quite popular.

There is a closer one to the terminal at the Crown Plaza Hotel (BP Pulse) near The Hoe but limited chargers.

If you are happy with a slower charge, don't need much, then there are a stack of chargers within a couple of miles of the terminal.

Edited by Shipping Forecast
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