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DFDS Rosslare - Dunkerque


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9 hours ago, Danim24 said:

'IF' this is the case, it certainly does not appear to affect DFDS. Their three ships keep plodding on regardless and they even take a 4th ship (Calais Seaways) to Dunkerque when Calais is closed.

As Colin touched on, a big advantage for DFDS's new route from Ireland to Dunkerque, is the road network. Direct into most of Europe without the need to use Toll roads, unlike Le Havre.

Paris Dunkirk / 3h - 3h30 on the road toll.

Nevertheless this Dunkirk / Rosslare route proves that a Dublin / Le Havre is possible in less than 24 hours.

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Pelagos this morning at Dunkerque , she is chartered until end of May 

A truck driver video report from a Rosslare - Dunkerque crossing:  

Posted Images

52 minutes ago, jonno said:

Word from my contact in Rosslare is that the Dunkerque route is instead of Le Havre. The Irish funding was more than what the TEN-T money would have been and DFDS were keen to use their own expanding facilities in France.

The option is still there so you never know but I doubt there's still the appetite now we have two operators serving Cherbourg and DFDS/LD sewing things up further east. 

There's another rumour regarding BF eventually wanting a two ship operation based at Rosslare, possibly Connemara or similar serving France and eventually the Cap serving both Spanish ports but in his defence maybe a little too much Bushmills had been imbibed by then! 

 

DFDS For Dunkirk ?

IRISH FERRIES For Cherbourg ?

BRITTANY FERRIES for Roscoff ?

STENA LINE for Le Havre ?

In the long run, could the market balance itself in this way?

I find it hard to believe the relevance of 3 operators on the same route in Cherbourg?

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20 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

It might be that whatever they are shipping doesn't need to transit through Rungis so the distance from Paris may be immaterial. 

Ed

Paris remains the main market in Western Europe.

Roscoff, Cherbourg, Le Havre, Dunkirk seem complementary.

Cherbourg for North Ouest of France

Le Havre for Paris North and South of France

Dunkirk for North of France of France and Belgium.

Roscoff...   for Brittany only 🙂

Edited by LHCity
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50 minutes ago, LHCity said:

Dunkirk for North of France of France and Belgium

Very few trucks using Dunkerque are bound for France. They are straight into Belgium and beyond or down to Lille and then lower Belgium and onto Luxembourg, where it is still cheaper to refuel.

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26 minutes ago, Danim24 said:

Very few trucks using Dunkerque are bound for France. They are straight into Belgium and beyond or down to Lille and then lower Belgium and onto Luxembourg, where it is still cheaper to refuel.

It does not surprise me because even to serve the North of France, going through Le Havre coming from Rosslare is faster. Serving Rosslare from Dunkirk is mainly to relieve congestion in Dover for all truck drivers ahead of Belgium or Holland. Dunkirk replaces Zeebruges or Rotterdam.

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I presume one of the Dunkerque West berths will need specially modifying to accommodate this new route (?).  As far as I know, the Dunkerque berths are all Dover Straits style aren’t they (with the ramp lowering onto the ship)?  Obviously they wouldn’t be able to use the berth used for the Dover service anyway, as that is in almost constant use.  But even if that berth was available, they would need to use the other one, specially adapted to suit non-Dover Straits ships.

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Sorry for Le Havre fan-boys, but the port does NOT have any major infrastructure to support and handle a new route like this. I understand your enthusiasm, @LHCity but it is already sometimes hard enough to make the Le Havre Ferry terminal fluid enough (I worked for BF as a parking agent on this terminal, and trust me, even with a ship like NEX, this is hard to have 250 cars in the lanes with no mess, consequently it is not adapted at all for more traffic). Even the access road is narrow, with no dedicated lane and quick exit. When you go out the terminal you end up with your car basically in the city-center. Great for cars and tourists, but imagine a fully packed Vinsentini, everyday, coming from Ireland, added to the Portsmouth route traffic, and the terminal is going to be quickly congested. 

So i can't imagine any new route starting from Le Havre for two main reasons : 

1 - this lack of decent infrastructures. There were rumour to relocate the terminal in the basins further east, but no traces of the project are visible these last months. Guess ferry operations are not the priority of LH Port Authorities. As soon as something larger more accessible is built, or a second combo of linkspan+parking is added, no way, nothing will be easy on this terminal, sadly. 

2 - BF is kind of "locking" the linkspan in Le Havre, and it is smart. They are doing in Le Havre kind of the same thing that they are doing in Cherbourg : showing they are here, developing there business quite nicely and they have at their disposal the linkspan all the day long. Quite hard for a new operator to arrive and set up a new route, even with 3 departures/week scheme. 

 

Dunkirk is the right choice, I am very curious to see how the things will evolve when the route will be open to passengers. Apart from the "parisian market importance" that I've read all along this forum, I guess that this new DKK-ROS route may handle a lot of new passengers from central Europe and maybe further. 

 

By the way, hello to everyone here, I am very interested by all your debates and it is very mature, very developed and argumented, I love it. 

 

Rémi

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14 minutes ago, Gareth said:

I presume one of the Dunkerque West berths will need specially modifying to accommodate this new route (?).  As far as I know, the Dunkerque berths are all Dover Straits style aren’t they (with the ramp lowering onto the ship)?  Obviously they wouldn’t be able to use the berth used for the Dover service anyway, as that is in almost constant use.  But even if that berth was available, they would need to use the other one, specially adapted to suit non-Dover Straits ships.

Two of the three berths are unsuitable, designed for the cow catcher, the third is a standard linkspan suitable for bow or stern mooring. DFDS only tend to use one.

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20 minutes ago, CH1 said:

Dunkirk is the right choice, I am very curious to see how the things will evolve when the route will be open to passengers. Apart from the "parisian market importance" that I've read all along this forum, I guess that this new DKK-ROS route may handle a lot of new passengers from central Europe and maybe further. 

 

By the way, hello to everyone here, I am very interested by all your debates and it is very mature, very developed and argumented, I love it. 

 

Rémi

It’s not quite welcome to the forum, Remi, but thanks for one of your rare posts!  Good to have your informed insight.  Yes, DFDS has made its decision for good reasons, and I’m sure the new route will be very successful.

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Sorry to post so rarely, I am Officer of the Watch (mainly onboard Ropax), had a busy year. I will try to as pertinent as I can, given your high level of debate, this is hard ! 
 

Will try to participate more frequently ! 

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50 minutes ago, jonno said:

Two of the three berths are unsuitable, designed for the cow catcher, the third is a standard linkspan suitable for bow or stern mooring. DFDS only tend to use one.

I concur. There is a third berth with linkspan suitable for ships ramps. DFDS only use this berth for Saturday night lay over. They do occasionally use the second berth for loading/unloading, depending on how busy the port traffic is.

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2 hours ago, CH1 said:

Sorry for Le Havre fan-boys, but the port does NOT have any major infrastructure to support and handle a new route like this. I understand your enthusiasm, @LHCity but it is already sometimes hard enough to make the Le Havre Ferry terminal fluid enough (I worked for BF as a parking agent on this terminal, and trust me, even with a ship like NEX, this is hard to have 250 cars in the lanes with no mess, consequently it is not adapted at all for more traffic). Even the access road is narrow, with no dedicated lane and quick exit. When you go out the terminal you end up with your car basically in the city-center. Great for cars and tourists, but imagine a fully packed Vinsentini, everyday, coming from Ireland, added to the Portsmouth route traffic, and the terminal is going to be quickly congested. 

So i can't imagine any new route starting from Le Havre for two main reasons : 

1 - this lack of decent infrastructures. There were rumour to relocate the terminal in the basins further east, but no traces of the project are visible these last months. Guess ferry operations are not the priority of LH Port Authorities. As soon as something larger more accessible is built, or a second combo of linkspan+parking is added, no way, nothing will be easy on this terminal, sadly. 

2 - BF is kind of "locking" the linkspan in Le Havre, and it is smart. They are doing in Le Havre kind of the same thing that they are doing in Cherbourg : showing they are here, developing there business quite nicely and they have at their disposal the linkspan all the day long. Quite hard for a new operator to arrive and set up a new route, even with 3 departures/week scheme. 

 

Dunkirk is the right choice, I am very curious to see how the things will evolve when the route will be open to passengers. Apart from the "parisian market importance" that I've read all along this forum, I guess that this new DKK-ROS route may handle a lot of new passengers from central Europe and maybe further. 

 

By the way, hello to everyone here, I am very interested by all your debates and it is very mature, very developed and argumented, I love it. 

 

Rémi

 

The Le Havre terminal has just been redeveloped with a new exit to the south, directly overlooking the port area and not the city center. The Le Havre terminal has perfectly managed the operation of the Pride Of Le Havre and Pride of Portsmouth, with nearly 1 million passengers per year. We can imagine that a link to Ireland will offer at best 1 departure per day, not enough to saturate the terminal.

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General manager Glen Carr said: “The new service to Dunkirk will give Irish industry a vital post-Brexit connection with congestion-free access to Rosslare Europort and landbridge
free access to the continent of Europe.

“It means we will become Ireland’s gateway to Europe with 13 ferry crossings a week come peak season with sailings to Dunkirk and Le Havre and Bilbao in northern Spain.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/inside-brexit-bypass-rosslare-europort-23089074

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18 minutes ago, David Williams said:

Do you have a plan of the new routes and does it include cars or just lorries ?

Clément Beaune's visit enabled Baptiste Maurand, general manager of the Grand Port maritime du Havre, to recall the investment of 1.75 million euros made by the Port of Le Havre to meet its future obligations. The extension of the terminal in Great Britain, located in the city center, imposed limits: the parking lot for seafarers was moved to free up space, the entry and exit flows were separated and one exit reserved. to the trucks was arranged towards the port area. The Quinette crossroads leading to the city center has been fitted with traffic lights.

https://www.paris-normandie.fr/actualites/economie/les-infrastructures-portuaires-du-havre-sont-pretes-pour-le-brexit-FK17481150

 

For more information en map

https://www.brexitreadybyharopa.haropaports.com/fr

https://www.brexitreadybyharopa.haropaports.com/fr/les-plans

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39 minutes ago, David Williams said:

Has the tourist exit in Le Havre changed or just the freight one.

Re the Irish nespaper, I note that it is part of the Reach group ! I don’t see mention of Le Havre in the Rosslare press release.

https://www.rosslareeuroport.ie/en-IE/news/Rosslare-Europort-welcomes-DFDS-new-six-times-week

 

There are now 2 possible exits for cars (via the city center or via the port area). Trucks must pass through the port area to reach the motorway directly. A new road has been rebuilt between the old Transatlantic Station and the Transmanche Terminal. Access is now via the South (current Cruise terminal).

Plan port du Havre SIVEP

Edited by LHCity
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1 hour ago, LHCity said:

 

The Le Havre terminal has just been redeveloped with a new exit to the south, directly overlooking the port area and not the city center. The Le Havre terminal has perfectly managed the operation of the Pride Of Le Havre and Pride of Portsmouth, with nearly 1 million passengers per year. We can imagine that a link to Ireland will offer at best 1 departure per day, not enough to saturate the terminal.

LHC I did hear that an off ramp had been discussed linking Bouelvard Winston Churchill to allow traffic to enter the port along Quai Frissard using up space from the railway sidings. Is this the work that has been done?

If so that would be a game changer as if there is parked vehicles next to the junction of Avenue Vauban the left turn can be tricky as not enough space remains for the dedicated turning lane.

... or do you mean Avenue Lucien Corbeaux, that would be perfect, straight out passed Total's storage facility and onto the A29 or even the A131.

I like it!

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13 minutes ago, jonno said:

LHC I did hear that an off ramp had been discussed linking Bouelvard Winston Churchill to allow traffic to enter the port along Quai Frissard using up space from the railway sidings. Is this the work that has been done?

If so that would be a game changer as if there is parked vehicles next to the junction of Avenue Vauban the left turn can be tricky as not enough space remains for the dedicated turning lane.

... or do you mean Avenue Lucien Corbeaux, that would be perfect, straight out passed Total's storage facility and onto the A29 or even the A131.

I like it!

What has been in place for a few weeks now is the direct link via Avenie Lucien Corbeaux (a new avenue shifted further north to make way for the Siemens Gamesa factory). The new Cross-Channel terminal exit allows direct access to the motorways and bridges via this avenue. Concerning the Frissard quay and the connection from Boulevard Winston Chruchill, this will be possible with the transformation of the interchange into an "urban" crossroads. This will be done at the same time as the construction of the 3rd tram line (from 2024).

The Channel Terminal has already welcomed 1 million passengers per year (P&O era) ... with these new facilities it is perfectly suited to accommodate new links to Ireland in addition to the Portsmouth route, in the best possible conditions for passengers and truck drivers.

In the much longer term, the city of Le Havre would like to recover all of the Citadel Island (where the terminal is located) to build a "Haffen-City" there. For the moment it is foresight, but the idea would be to group the Transmanche Terminal with the new Cruise terminal, on Florida Mole or the Joannes Couvert quay.

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I think it should be mentioned that from January the U.K. border force will only be looking to stop vans & trucks carrying hazardous and controlled substances like alcohol & tobacco. Full border control won't commence until July 1st 2021.

By then the huge lorry parks currently under construction along the Dover corridor will be completed.

 

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