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DFDS Rosslare - Dunkerque


nick hall
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Of course, Le Havre handled 1 million pax/year, but the context was quite different : no Eurotunnel, no ISPS controls and two P&O ships geared for pax and not freight. The pax area itself is so small, it needs much more things inside to cater passengers on larger numbers. Le Havre clearly needs to gear things up if they want to attract a new and frequent passenger service. 

A full Étretat is already a challenge for the Le Havre Terminal, I would be pleased to see a new service from/to le Havre, but with the existing facilities, it seems hard to believe that traffic will be easy to absorb smoothly. Unless they build a dedicated Irish-bound terminal. Could be quite easy, with just one floating single-level ramp and a lanes, nearby Osaka Quay or Asia Quay, for example. 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, LHCity said:

Irish Ferries can do a Dublin / Le Havre which will not be longer than a Rosslare / Dunkirk ... and which will only use 2 boats instead of 3 (at DFDS) to ensure one departure per day.

I wonder why DFDS haven't arranged the schedule to run it on 2 boats?

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3 minutes ago, David Williams said:

cos it needs 3 to get 6 departures each way each week - as would the same timetable for Dublin - Le Havre !

Does it really? I might have got something wrong but this is from a quick look at the timetable:

Ship A

(Monday nothing)

Dunkirk Tuesday 10:00 - Wednesday 09:00 Rosslare (11 hours in Rosslare)

Rosslare Wednesday 20:00 - Thursday 21:00 Dunkirk (23 hours in Dunkirk)

Dunkirk Friday 20:00 - Saturday 19:00 Rosslare (4 hours in Rosslare)

Rosslare Saturday 23:00 - Sunday 23:00 Dunkirk  (35 hours in Dunkirk)

Ship B

B Rosslare Monday 20:00 - Tuesday 21:00 Dunkirk  (13 hours in Dunkirk)

B Dunkirk Wednesday 10:00 - Thursday 09:00 Rosslare (33 hours in Rosslare)

B Rosslare Friday 18:00 - Saturday 19:00 Dunkirk (4 hours in Dunkirk)

B Dunkirk Saturday 23:00 - Sunday 21:00 Rosslare (23 hours in Rosslare)

Ship C

C Rosslare Tuesday 20:00 - Wednesday 21:00 Dunkirk (13 hours in Dunkirk)

C Dunkirk Thursday 10:00 - Friday 09:00 Rosslare (17 hours in Rosslare)

C Rosslare Saturday 14:00 - Sunday 15:00 Dunkirk (5 hours in Dunkirk)

C Dunkirk Sunday 22:00 - Monday 21:00 Rosslare (23 hours in Dunkirk)

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1 hour ago, David Williams said:

cos it needs 3 to get 6 departures each way each week - as would the same timetable for Dublin - Le Havre !

the distance from Dublin / Le Havre by sea is slightly shorter than Rosslare / Dunkirk. Rosslare or Cork / Le Havre it is certain that with two boats it works perfectly ... Dublin, I am not sure. What is DFDS doing with its boats in Dunkirk, which wait a long time at the quayside ?

 

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2 hours ago, LHCity said:

the distance from Dublin / Le Havre by sea is slightly shorter than Rosslare / Dunkirk. Rosslare or Cork / Le Havre it is certain that with two boats it works perfectly ... Dublin, I am not sure. What is DFDS doing with its boats in Dunkirk, which wait a long time at the quayside ?

 

I'm not sure why you keep making comparisons with Le Havre and  Dunkerque! As previously stated, DFDS have their operations in Dunkerque already, they clearly have no interest in Le Havre and, as I've previously pointed out, their market is for trucks that are not destined for France. The trucks they do carry are not going to travel via toll routes unnecessarily.

Unless, of course, they are trying to tap into a new market.

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3 minutes ago, Danim24 said:

I'm not sure why you keep making comparisons with Le Havre and  Dunkerque! As previously stated, DFDS have their operations in Dunkerque already, they clearly have no interest in Le Havre and, as I've previously pointed out, their market is for trucks that are not destined for France. The trucks they do carry are not going to travel via toll routes unnecessarily.

Unless, of course, they are trying to tap into a new market.

You're absolutely right. The aim is not to compare Le Havre and Dunkirk, but to see comparatively what could be done from Le Havre to Rosslare, Dublin or Cork, to connect Ireland more easily to the Paris region and the centre/south of France. Cherbourg is objectively too far from everything and underserved by the motorway network.

2 hours from Cherbourg :

image.thumb.png.890549f2de8ef4de9f3eb1329b2636a1.png

2 hours from Le Havre :

image.thumb.png.f60cf35f7d720cb927db2f81b93fad97.png

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7 hours ago, LHCity said:

You're absolutely right. The aim is not to compare Le Havre and Dunkirk, but to see comparatively what could be done from Le Havre to Rosslare, Dublin or Cork, to connect Ireland more easily to the Paris region and the centre/south of France. Cherbourg is objectively too far from everything and underserved by the motorway network.

2 hours from Cherbourg :

image.thumb.png.890549f2de8ef4de9f3eb1329b2636a1.png

2 hours from Le Havre :

image.thumb.png.f60cf35f7d720cb927db2f81b93fad97.png

I don't honestly think a truck can get from Le Havre to just north of Le Mans in two hours given the speed limits they need to respect.

Google Maps' fastest route with a car (110 or 130kmph) gets routed just west of Rouen and takes 2 hours and 20 minutes.

Ed. 

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On 30/11/2020 at 17:10, RickOShea said:

Two have been reported (but unconfirmed) on Facebook - KERRY and VISBY.

It's being said that the Visby charter is for an initial 6 months, December '20 - May '21. The company who has chartered her wish the deal to remain anonymous.

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19 minutes ago, jonno said:

It's being said that the Visby charter is for an initial 6 months, December '20 - May '21. The company who has chartered her wish the deal to remain anonymous.

Correct - it's in the press release - see below.

Of course, charters are complex affairs, often with break points and extension points beyond the headline.

https://gotlandsbolaget.se/m-s-visby-chartras-ut/?fbclid=IwAR2TjKe760Rd-bcec9FDi_DBIkRld4wpMLEl_VMVzNF17wTgG02WQiLFv1E

 

Google Translation "The vessel M / S Visby will be chartered out from approximately 20 December until May 2021. Until further notice, the charterer has requested that it be confidential which route the vessel will be deployed on. Destination Gotland will man tires and machinery under the charter. The charter may be extended if the expected traffic is good. M / S Drotten will replace M / S Visby in Gotlandstrafiken."

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4 hours ago, LHCity said:

Are we sure this charter is for Dunkirk Rosslare?

If you are talking about VISBY - we can't even be sure DFDS are taking her as that hasn't been confirmed but assuming she is, it's fairly safe to say she is one of the three ships for the new route.

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11 hours ago, jonno said:

She's also the natural choice if DFDS feel they're in a position to offer passenger services.

Just for info she has Siemens scrubbers fitted. 

Actually, due to the unique nature of the Destination Gotland route, the passenger experience is fairly basic onboard (wall to wall airline seats mostly), and cabin number too low for a mainsteam passenger experience. I'd argue, even a Visentini offers a better experience for that purpose.  You will get away with it on a freight only service but I'd say if the route survives (and we have no clue about that until we see what life actually turns out like after Brexit proper) and becomes a passenger service, I'd say you'd replace with something more suitable.

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After this « trial period » the few months following Brexit, and that the route has supposedly secured enough freight to roll on all year long, maybe the unborn deal between Moby and DFDS could provide to the latter two decent vessels with a good lane meters amount and enough cabins to open a reliable passenger service. 
 

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1 hour ago, CH1 said:

After this « trial period » the few months following Brexit, and that the route has supposedly secured enough freight to roll on all year long, maybe the unborn deal between Moby and DFDS could provide to the latter two decent vessels with a good lane meters amount and enough cabins to open a reliable passenger service. 
 

That requires Moby's Finances properly sorted too :) and if that was the case, they probably wouldn't be the great deal that they were before.  

If those  boxes were ticked, I'd say DFDS would revert to the original plan to use them on Newcastle - Amsterdam.  Their PC will always be too big for a route like Rosslare - Dunkerque where I can't imagine the tourist demand ever being huge.

If it all works, I'd say DFDS will obtain suitable ropax tonnage.  Two newbuilds are due for Klaipeda - Karlshamn next year which could directly or indirectly release ships.  

But let's see how things look in June :) 

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3 hours ago, RickOShea said:

Actually, due to the unique nature of the Destination Gotland route, the passenger experience is fairly basic onboard (wall to wall airline seats mostly), and cabin number too low for a mainsteam passenger experience. I'd argue, even a Visentini offers a better experience for that purpose.  You will get away with it on a freight only service but I'd say if the route survives (and we have no clue about that until we see what life actually turns out like after Brexit proper) and becomes a passenger service, I'd say you'd replace with something more suitable.

300 beds according to Ferrysite (more than 400 on Etretat). 

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1 minute ago, VikingVoyager said:

300 beds according to Ferrysite (more than 400 on Etretat). 

115 cabins are quoted here https://gotlandsbolaget.se/publikationer/ms-visby/ 

95 cabins are quoted in other places. 

So it's not far off a Visentini but the accommodation is a problem, the dining and bar areas on a Visentini (especially the versions without the reclining seats like the ETRETAT) are much much more generous in size.

Absolutely sufficient for a freight only use on this route but not tourist use.

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2 minutes ago, VikingVoyager said:

I don't admit to following this story closely, but the idea of them attempting a genuine passenger service on this route seems far fetched to me.  

If the freight route works and it needs to be accompanied, rather than unaccompanied, the cost of also carrying tourist traffic is reasonably marginal.  It would definitely attract some trade in summer.  But I recall trips on the (wonderful) OSCAR WILDE on Rosslare - Cherbourg out of season and even she was mainly freight.

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  • 2 weeks later...
39 minutes ago, Chaplain said:

Could Seven Sisters be the third ship (presently laid up in Dunkirk), at least for the first three months or so?

Good idea! She's fine for a 4-hour short crossing but 24 would be a bit long. However for freight drivers that might work if she has enough capacity on the lower deck.

Ed

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