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Speaking as a resident of Fishguard, my gut feeling has been that Stena have been marking time here for years.

The scrapping of the new linkspan when WAG, Irish Ferries and Stena all hat to throw in some money (Stena refused) pretty much sealed the places fate.

Only older smaller ferries can get in here now.

Rhys

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EXACTLY! We are talking about 500% starting from a very small number.  The last figures I analysed suggested STENA HORIZON was averaging 70 freight units a sailing with 3 sailings each way per we

I`m at a loss to understand why the Welsh Government would get involved. Yes the reduction of traffic will cause a reduction in port charges but thats all. These lorries roll off at Holyhead and by an

Couple of pics of Drottens arrival from Rosslare Europort twitter    

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1 hour ago, Penlan said:

Speaking as a resident of Fishguard, my gut feeling has been that Stena have been marking time here for years.

The scrapping of the new linkspan when WAG, Irish Ferries and Stena all hat to throw in some money (Stena refused) pretty much sealed the places fate.

Only older smaller ferries can get in here now.

Rhys

Rhys Stena own Fishguard port and it will take a 180m ship but I do think the A40 heading through Wolf's Castle is an issue due to flooding and during the winter has a negative impact not to mention the bypass starting at St Clears which was a big plus for Pemb's dock. During high winds though Goodwick has an advantage over the Haven, Stena Europe tends to keep sailing while Isle of Inishmore stays in port.

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10 hours ago, jonno said:

Rhys Stena own Fishguard port and it will take a 180m ship but I do think the A40 heading through Wolf's Castle is an issue due to flooding and during the winter has a negative impact not to mention the bypass starting at St Clears which was a big plus for Pemb's dock. During high winds though Goodwick has an advantage over the Haven, Stena Europe tends to keep sailing while Isle of Inishmore stays in port.

Without getting too distracted, the solution for Fishguard is to upgrade the B4313 from Penblewin. It would be much simpler than filling in Trefgarne Gorge!!

My understanding from those in the port is the width of the linkspan is an issue,  modern ships having too much beam to get on it.

Irish Ferries have long wanted to ditch the dock as they snail treck up the haven adds hours to the trip.

Rhys

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Just to point out...there is very little capacity left at either Dublin or Rosslare for more services, at least at times that are viable.

 

Cork would possibly be the only option.  

 

I really doubt even with the craziest possible delays there is much need for more capacity at this point.  Stena and IF had plenty of space already on many sailings.  Nevermind whatever space CLdN and BF have on their services to places other than France.

Though...I wonder if Stena/IF might increase capacity to defend their market share?

Right now...all bets are off.

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9 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

Just to point out...there is very little capacity left at either Dublin or Rosslare for more services, at least at times that are viable.

 

Cork would possibly be the only option.  

 

I really doubt even with the craziest possible delays there is much need for more capacity at this point.  Stena and IF had plenty of space already on many sailings.  Nevermind whatever space CLdN and BF have on their services to places other than France.

Though...I wonder if Stena/IF might increase capacity to defend their market share?

Right now...all bets are off.

Stena and Irish are the only ones who have not increased their abilities, indeed. Is everyone going to be able to stay on Cherbourg? It's like a musical chair fight.

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39 minutes ago, LHCity said:

I find it hard to believe the relevance of 3 operators on the same route in Cherbourg?

It's the 20,000 + trailers heading north on the rail link together with the already established accompanied freight which is the attraction,

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6 minutes ago, jonno said:

It's the 20,000 + trailers heading north on the rail link together with the already established accompanied freight which is the attraction,

we'll talk about it in 2030?

rail freight projects in France are like tram projects in England

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Honestly, I wonder what is the future strategy for Irish Ferries. They pulled out of Rosslare claiming that passengers were prefering the central position of Dublin but what about their continental freight business ? Rosslare is clearly winning the competition for the Ireland-EU routes. I really doubt that IF will increase their capacity between Cherbourg and Dublin. 

 

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2 hours ago, CH1 said:

Honestly, I wonder what is the future strategy for Irish Ferries. They pulled out of Rosslare claiming that passengers were prefering the central position of Dublin but what about their continental freight business ? Rosslare is clearly winning the competition for the Ireland-EU routes. I really doubt that IF will increase their capacity between Cherbourg and Dublin. 

 

Irish Ferries can do a Dublin / Le Havre which will not be longer than a Rosslare / Dunkirk ... and which will only use 2 boats instead of 3 (at DFDS) to ensure one departure per day.

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7 hours ago, LHCity said:

Irish Ferries can do a Dublin / Le Havre which will not be longer than a Rosslare / Dunkirk ... and which will only use 2 boats instead of 3 (at DFDS) to ensure one departure per day.

It would mean that Stena Line is left alone in Cherbourg barely doing what they want, which I can't imagine being safe for Irish Ferries business and BF too. And which ship would IF use for your supposed LH-ROS route ? WBY ? Far too big for the terminal. You'll never park 165 trucks or their car's equivalent on the small LH parking, unfortunately ... (admitting that the ship woud leave full..., it gives me headache just imaginating a full WBY pouring up her passengers and freight on the port's exits at the rush hour in the morning) 

And Epsilon ? Limited pax capacity, especially if I follow your thinking (which I quite understand in some ways), Parisian or Irish tourists will get the ship full in a hand of weeks. 

The only solution for this nex route idea would be to charter a new ship, I guess. 

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7 hours ago, LHCity said:

Irish Ferries can do a Dublin / Le Havre which will not be longer than a Rosslare / Dunkirk ... and which will only use 2 boats instead of 3 (at DFDS) to ensure one departure per day.

It would mean that Stena Line is left alone in Cherbourg barely doing what they want, which I can't imagine being safe for Irish Ferries business and BF too. And which ship would IF use for your supposed LH-ROS route ? WBY ? Far too big for the terminal. You'll never park 165 trucks or their car's equivalent on the small LH parking, unfortunately ... (admitting that the ship woud leave full..., it gives me headache just imaginating a full WBY pouring up her passengers and freight on the port's exits at the rush hour in the morning) 

And Epsilon ? Limited pax capacity, especially if I follow your thinking (which I quite understand in some ways), Parisian or Irish tourists will get the ship full in a hand of weeks. 

The only solution for this nex route idea would be to charter a new ship, I guess. 

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7 hours ago, LHCity said:

Irish Ferries can do a Dublin / Le Havre which will not be longer than a Rosslare / Dunkirk ... and which will only use 2 boats instead of 3 (at DFDS) to ensure one departure per day.

It would mean that Stena Line is left alone in Cherbourg barely doing what they want, which I can't imagine being safe for Irish Ferries business and BF too. And which ship would IF use for your supposed LH-ROS route ? WBY ? Far too big for the terminal. You'll never park 165 trucks or their car's equivalent on the small LH parking, unfortunately ... (admitting that the ship woud leave full..., it gives me headache just imaginating a full WBY pouring up her passengers and freight on the port's exits at the rush hour in the morning) 

And Epsilon ? Limited pax capacity, especially if I follow your thinking (which I quite understand in some ways), Parisian or Irish tourists will get the ship full in a hand of weeks. 

The only solution for this nex route idea would be to charter a new ship, I guess. 

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7 hours ago, LHCity said:

Irish Ferries can do a Dublin / Le Havre which will not be longer than a Rosslare / Dunkirk ... and which will only use 2 boats instead of 3 (at DFDS) to ensure one departure per day.

It would mean that Stena Line is left alone in Cherbourg barely doing what they want, which I can't imagine being safe for Irish Ferries business and BF too. And which ship would IF use for your supposed LH-ROS route ? WBY ? Far too big for the terminal. You'll never park 165 trucks or their car's equivalent on the small LH parking, unfortunately ... (admitting that the ship woud leave full..., it gives me headache just imaginating a full WBY pouring up her passengers and freight on the port's exits at the rush hour in the morning) 

And Epsilon ? Limited pax capacity, especially if I follow your thinking (which I quite understand in some ways), Parisian or Irish tourists will get the ship full in a hand of weeks. 

The only solution for this nex route idea would be to charter a new ship, I guess. 

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13 minutes ago, CH1 said:

It would mean that Stena Line is left alone in Cherbourg barely doing what they want, which I can't imagine being safe for Irish Ferries business and BF too. And which ship would IF use for your supposed LH-ROS route ? WBY ? Far too big for the terminal. You'll never park 165 trucks or their car's equivalent on the small LH parking, unfortunately ... (admitting that the ship woud leave full..., it gives me headache just imaginating a full WBY pouring up her passengers and freight on the port's exits at the rush hour in the morning) 

And Epsilon ? Limited pax capacity, especially if I follow your thinking (which I quite understand in some ways), Parisian or Irish tourists will get the ship full in a hand of weeks. 

The only solution for this nex route idea would be to charter a new ship, I guess. 

I wasn't necessarily thinking about the WBY. It could be any ship. Why not Cap Finistère? I think you are very underestimating the truck storage capacity on the terminal, especially since the recent modernization. The old P-O's generated a very large freight and passenger traffic. The ideal for Le Havre / Ireland (Cork, Rosslare or Dublin) would be to get them back the ex-P-O Pride of Le Havre / Pride of Portsmouth. These boats would be ideal for this type of long crossings between Paris (via Le Havre) and Dublin (via Rosslare). This is a dream 🙂

Already starting with 3 round trips per week with Cap Finistère would be a good start. CF is able to attract a lot of passengers in good conditions, in addition to freight

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4 minutes ago, LHCity said:

would be to get them back the ex-P-O Pride of Le Havre / Pride of Portsmouth. These boats would be ideal for this type of long crossings between Paris (via Le Havre) and Dublin (via Rosslare)

They have no where near enough lane meters for this day and age.

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50 minutes ago, CH1 said:

WBY ? Far too big for the terminal.

Not at 195m she's not. Shorter than BDS and the Cap'.

Lanes 7 -12 at Le Havre can hold 20 HGV's each, that's 120 trucks which is a similar capacity to Portsmouth's 17 lanes under the blue gantry where they're held as many of them can only hold 5 HGV's. LH has hard standing for another 100. 

I'm all for debate as to why an operator opts for one port over another but Le Havre is no worse than any other and we could easily debate why Ouistreham has downright antisocial arrival and departure times, I mean who in their right mind want's to arrive at 00 dark stupid of a morning after probably no breakfast and very little sleep? To me that's torture not a relaxing start to a holiday.

 

 

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Never mind whether Le Havre can handle the trade - can Dublin cope with extra sailings? The port's CEO was moaning to a parliamentary committee yesterday that to avoid congestion at the port he's trying to get current ferry operators to stagger their arrivals but they won't budge.

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9 hours ago, jonno said:

Not at 195m she's not. Shorter than BDS and the Cap'.

Lanes 7 -12 at Le Havre can hold 20 HGV's each, that's 120 trucks which is a similar capacity to Portsmouth's 17 lanes under the blue gantry where they're held as many of them can only hold 5 HGV's. LH has hard standing for another 100. 

I'm all for debate as to why an operator opts for one port over another but Le Havre is no worse than any other and we could easily debate why Ouistreham has downright antisocial arrival and departure times, I mean who in their right mind want's to arrive at 00 dark stupid of a morning after probably no breakfast and very little sleep? To me that's torture not a relaxing start to a holiday.

 

 

Sorry Jonno, I should have been clearer, I was not talking about the ship's dimensions but only about her capacities ! What I can remember from my experience working on LH lanes is that it is much harder than expected to operate a ship bigger than a Visentini (in terms of lanemeters and pax) on this terminal unless they enlarge it a bit. More over, I hope it has been imporved, but controls were very long due to an understaffed police team and not enough security agents. That's why, combined with the huge capacity of a ship like WBY, I think it would quite hard to perform a smooth operation with a ship more spacious than what we have today. 

Cotentin operations from LH will be very interesting to follow. 

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13 minutes ago, CH1 said:

Sorry Jonno, I should have been clearer, I was not talking about the ship's dimensions but only about her capacities ! What I can remember from my experience working on LH lanes is that it is much harder than expected to operate a ship bigger than a Visentini (in terms of lanemeters and pax) on this terminal unless they enlarge it a bit. More over, I hope it has been imporved, but controls were very long due to an understaffed police team and not enough security agents. That's why, combined with the huge capacity of a ship like WBY, I think it would quite hard to perform a smooth operation with a ship more spacious than what we have today. 

Cotentin operations from LH will be very interesting to follow. 

Understood @CH1 but I tend to take advertised capacities with a pinch of salt. As an example Normandie with her 2100+ pax capacity is slated as being able to carry 575 cars on 1720 lane metres. How can WBY transport over 1200 cars on 2800 lane metres?

You need on average 4.1 metres per pax vehicle and 17m per HGV and that isn't considering width.

 

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33 minutes ago, jonno said:

Understood @CH1 but I tend to take advertised capacities with a pinch of salt. As an example Normandie with her 2100+ pax capacity is slated as being able to carry 575 cars on 1720 lane metres. How can WBY transport over 1200 cars on 2800 lane metres?

You need on average 4.1 metres per pax vehicle and 17m per HGV and that isn't considering width.

 

I remember that she can handle 1200 cars thanks to her dedicated car deck, on deck 7, loading up to 300 standard cars. Which could be quite coherent, with a remaining 900 cars on the 2,800 lanemeters (I think they were dedicated to freight and not including the lanemeters on the fixed car deck). But I fully agree with you, I've always been quite doubtful about ship's real capacities, especially when you are the loading officer ahah ! 

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37 minutes ago, jonno said:

Understood @CH1 but I tend to take advertised capacities with a pinch of salt. As an example Normandie with her 2100+ pax capacity is slated as being able to carry 575 cars on 1720 lane metres. How can WBY transport over 1200 cars on 2800 lane metres?

You need on average 4.1 metres per pax vehicle and 17m per HGV and that isn't considering width.

 

I generally only work on lane metre capacity (for both cars and freight).

But even that doesn't tell the full story as not all areas are accessible to all traffic and we have other issues like weight and width.

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