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Possible Revival of Rosslare-Le Havre


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4 hours ago, RickOShea said:

Anything is possible...but it needs to be a ship with enough lane metres and enough cabins.  Hence my suggestion that NORMANDIE would be perfect (well perfect is too strong but a good option in circumstances).  I think it's reliable to guess Caen traffic is well down at present so she could either not be replaced or ARMORIQUE may be sufficient for there.

 

I come back to my idea of assigning NORMANDIE on Le Havre / Portsmouth and coordinating the schedules with Ouistreham / Portsmouth... which makes it possible to affect COTENTIN on Le Havre / Rosslare. For example. It is obvious that the 3 departures per day from Ouistreham are not justified at this time.

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Sounds indeed like the rivalry between Haute and Basse Normandie is not dead yet despite the reunification... 

My brother-in-law used to live near Ouistreham and worked as communications manager for the job centre in Caen but covered all of Lower Normandy. They merged with Upper Normandy last year and his offi

Just had a play around with possible timetables for such a service.  Alternate weekday sailings to Dunkerque would not be possible, two of them would need to be on consecutive days.  But a service tha

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18 minutes ago, LHCity said:

The ideal for this new route would be CAP FINISTERE. A fast ship, capable for the Freight and comfortable for passengers. It would be perfect for one of the longest routes in the Brittany Ferries network. Passengers should not be overlooked, as the Ireland, a 2-hour drive from Paris, can be quite successful. For the moment it is pure speculation, but for this we would have to replace CAP FINISTERE on Spain? IS PONT AVEN available at the moment to return to Spain?

Le Havre - Rosslare would be a long route (I guess 20-21 hours) but still far off the longest (Rosslare-Spain, all the UK-Spain).

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In this case, I hope the Le Havre terminal can be expanded and/or optimized, because if the potential new route is successful, things will soon get messy and packed on the current ferry terminal. 

To me, things are really easier to get the Cherbourg-Rosslare opening coming way earlier than expected, and the rail link will (if really done) be the game changer for this route. As soon as the Cherbourg rail terminal will be linked with other rail terminals further east and south (as planned) in Europe, I can't see any reason to - at least - trash the CH-ROS route. BF could charter something elsewhere, or of course use Cotentin. I don't know the interest of having two Irish routes, from Cherbourg and LH. Especially when you know that the scheduled run of Connemara is even not dictated by a crew shift need. It will be either Le Havre or Cherbourg for the new route, to me.

On a pax perspective, I think that a summer trial of this route next year could be a good start to test the popularity of such a thing. If Dunkirk is viable with passenger traffic, as Cherbourg is, there is no reason for Le Havre not to take a bit of that tourism flow. 

Cap Finistère could be the perfect ship unless they overcome the loading issues regarding stability ... because otherwise, it is an inconvenient vessel, although very fast and a good sea keeper. 

 

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29 minutes ago, CH1 said:

In this case, I hope the Le Havre terminal can be expanded and/or optimized, because if the potential new route is successful, things will soon get messy and packed on the current ferry terminal. 

To me, things are really easier to get the Cherbourg-Rosslare opening coming way earlier than expected, and the rail link will (if really done) be the game changer for this route. As soon as the Cherbourg rail terminal will be linked with other rail terminals further east and south (as planned) in Europe, I can't see any reason to - at least - trash the CH-ROS route. BF could charter something elsewhere, or of course use Cotentin. I don't know the interest of having two Irish routes, from Cherbourg and LH. Especially when you know that the scheduled run of Connemara is even not dictated by a crew shift need. It will be either Le Havre or Cherbourg for the new route, to me.

On a pax perspective, I think that a summer trial of this route next year could be a good start to test the popularity of such a thing. If Dunkirk is viable with passenger traffic, as Cherbourg is, there is no reason for Le Havre not to take a bit of that tourism flow. 

Cap Finistère could be the perfect ship unless they overcome the loading issues regarding stability ... because otherwise, it is an inconvenient vessel, although very fast and a good sea keeper. 

 

The terminal was able to handle 1 million passengers per year with 3 departures per day at the time of P-O...   and millions of euros have been invested to prepare it for Brexit. All that's missing are boats.

as a reminder, 2 hours drive from Cherbourg :

image.thumb.png.890549f2de8ef4de9f3eb1329b2636a1.png

and 2 hours drive from Le Havre :

image.thumb.png.f60cf35f7d720cb927db2f81b93fad97.png

Edited by LHCity
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16 minutes ago, LHCity said:

 

 

 

The terminal was able to handle 1 million passengers per year with 3 departures per day at the time of P-O...   and millions of euros have been invested to prepare it for Brexit. All that's missing are boats.

as a reminder, 2 hours drive from Cherbourg :

image.thumb.png.890549f2de8ef4de9f3eb1329b2636a1.png

and 2 hours drive from Le Havre :

image.thumb.png.f60cf35f7d720cb927db2f81b93fad97.png

I think we have previously established that trucks can not get that far from Le Havre in two hours. Cars might just be able to do so but it's hypothetical. 

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I guess, @LHCity, that these maps are of non importance for now for the shipping companies wanting to open freight services, otherwise, Irish Ferries would never have closed its route from Le Havre 23 years ago. Here, you are focusing (for a few weeks time, now) on the supposed importance of the parisian market for Irish haulage. Let's remember that France itself is only 3,6% of the Irish exports, almost 10 times less than UK, Germany, and Belgium combined. 

I guess that these maps, are only useful to get an idea of a potential pax market. But it has no use for the freight market. 

 

And talking about that P&O-departure-a-day era, there was a lot of passengers, far more than freight in these numbers, used by ships with way less lanemeters.

We can't keep comparing that old era with today, and forget that standards have absolutely changed. Because, if I think the same way as you, I remember that Cherbourg was nearly handling 1.8 million pax a year 25 years ago, and still, I can't see the Cherbourg terminal welcoming again that mass of traffic with no major works or modifications. Things have really changed, to my eyes, we should not think the future of ports by saying "Oh, it has already been done by the past, so it is possible to do it again". Context, formalities, ships and trade have hugely evolved. 

 

Edited by CH1
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WIth only one roro berth, Le Havre will only ever be a secondary port. 

The news that France may insist on the slow covid test will make the UK route even less attractive for the Irish and may well mean even less truckers will want to come to the UK from Europe - covid and brexit together may well end up with a permanent shift away from accompanied freight !

Edited by David Williams
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I’d like to see the return of sailings from Southampton Princess Alexandria Dock.  There used to be 6 passenger sailings to France every day from there, so I’m sure the demand is still there.  And Southampton is one of the busiest ports in England (THE busiest if you combine it into one port with Dover and Felixstowe), so they are really missing a trick by no longer offering a lifeline link to Greater Europe from there.  I think there is a strong case for demolishing Ocean Village and restoring the link.

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9 minutes ago, Gareth said:

I’d like to see the return of sailings from Southampton Princess Alexandria Dock.  There used to be 5 passenger sailings to France every day from there, so I’m sure the demand is still there.  And Southampton is one of the busiest ports in England (THE busiest if you combine it into one port with Dover and Felixstowe), so they are really missing a trick by no longer offering a lifeline link to Greater Europe from there.  I think there is a strong case for demolishing Ocean Village and restoring the link.

Behave

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3 minutes ago, The Ferry Man said:

I'm getting the strangest feeling of deja vu. I feel like we've done this debate before... 

The clue:

13 hours ago, LHCity said:

I come back to my idea

 

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And let us not forget the additional 3 hours sailing time to Le Havre for vessels arriving from the west. The freight ships use Cherbourg for a reason.

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RickO

2 minutes ago, Danim24 said:

And let us not forget the additional 3 hours sailing time to Le Havre for vessels arriving from the west. The freight ships use Cherbourg for a reason.

If Dunkirk can work (6 more hours than Cherbourg), Le Havre should too.

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6 minutes ago, lg12 said:

RickO

If Dunkirk can work (6 more hours than Cherbourg), Le Havre should too.

Dunkirk has the advantage is that the drivers can use that route to get a 24 hour break which is useful for all of their complicated restrictions.

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3 minutes ago, lg12 said:

RickO

If Dunkirk can work (6 more hours than Cherbourg), Le Havre should too.

 

DFDS are not trying to compete with Cherbourg or Le Havre because a huge amount of their traffic does not need France. As I've said before, why pay tolls if you don't need to? 

My point is, if you are France bound why go to Le Havre when you can go Cherbourg (if arriving from Eire)?

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1 hour ago, David Williams said:

WIth only one roro berth, Le Havre will only ever be a secondary port. 

The news that France may insist on the slow covid test will make the UK route even less attractive for the Irish and may well mean even less truckers will want to come to the UK from Europe - covid and brexit together may well end up with a permanent shift away from accompanied freight !

 

This will surely not prevent a well-known company in Le Havre to relocate soon. Just saying 😉

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13 minutes ago, Danim24 said:

And let us not forget the additional 3 hours sailing time to Le Havre for vessels arriving from the west. The freight ships use Cherbourg for a reason.

3 hours of sea or 3 hours of road ... the motorway accesses of Le Havre are much better.

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4 minutes ago, David Williams said:

Dunkirk has the advantage is that the drivers can use that route to get a 24 hour break which is useful for all of their complicated restrictions.

 

In this case, a Le Havre Dublin route will immediately open in 24 hours! Dunkirk / Rosslare = Le Havre / Dublin

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22 minutes ago, LHCity said:

 

This will surely not prevent a well-known company in Le Havre to relocate soon. Just saying 😉

Think I know what you are saying. In this case you’d admit that the huge portfolio of freight customers this operator has is the real advantage ;) 

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2 hours ago, David Williams said:

Behave

Oh don't say that, I was about to bring up the flying boats. There's room enough to see them tonking along the Test again.

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  • Gareth changed the title to Le Havre / Ireland ?
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