Possible Revival of Rosslare-Le Havre

[CH1]

@LHCity, of course I'd be very pleased to see a LH/IRL service  I am just a bit lost over the strategy BF want to follow in these crazy times. 

I think we'll end up with effectively a Le Havre - Rosslare service, but from a new operator. And BF strengthening its Cherbourg-Rosslare link. 

[IanN]

What about the tendency for the port workers in Le Havre to strike. Would this not put any company off investing. It would be my last choice of destination if I was travelling to France

[Cabin-boy]

5 minutes ago, IanN said:

What about the tendency for the port workers in Le Havre to strike. Would this not put any company off investing. It would be my last choice of destination if I was travelling to France

They only go on strike twice a year. 

From January to June and from September to December. 

Ed

[lg12]

35 minutes ago, CH1 said:

@LHCity, of course I'd be very pleased to see a LH/IRL service  I am just a bit lost over the strategy BF want to follow in these crazy times. 

I think we'll end up with effectively a Le Havre - Rosslare service, but from a new operator. And BF strengthening its Cherbourg-Rosslare link. 

What new operator would be interested in a roro Le Havre - Ireland? I can think of P&O. Anyone else?

Edited January 15 by lg12

[CH1]

Guess it is also P&O, @lg12

[jonno]

39 minutes ago, lg12 said:

What about one of these.

Only if I can paint it purple and call it Thunderbird 6!

[David Williams]

39 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

They only go on strike twice a year. 

From January to June and from September to December. 

Ed

And Holidays in July and August

[David Williams]

32 minutes ago, lg12 said:

I am just a bit lost over the strategy BF want to follow in these crazy times. 

Simple, it is survival which means cash flow.

Shame really as brexit and covid are creating opportunities for stronger companies, time will tell whether the new routes are needed or whether we are seeing the slow death of accompanied freight.

[LHCity]

 

5 hours ago, IanN said:

What about the tendency for the port workers in Le Havre to strike. Would this not put any company off investing. It would be my last choice of destination if I was travelling to France

Of an exceptional case, you do not generalize. The strikes at the end of 2019 were linked to a national movement that affected all national transport because of the pension reform. 

We recall that England was much worse than France to go on strike, before Tatcher

We also note the number of cancellations of Brittany Ferries linked to the unreliability of Etretat.

end of off topic

Edited January 15 by LHCity

[LHCity]

4 hours ago, CH1 said:

Guess it is also P&O, @lg12

hm hmm ... I'll let you guess. We could end up with two operators and a dedicated ropax per company to ensure 1 departure per day. the future will tell

Edited January 15 by LHCity

[IanN]

Agreed end of topic

[RickOShea]

It looks like it isn't Le Havre - Rosslare.  Just posted this to Ferries! on Facebook.

 

Brittany Ferries is the latest operator to tap into the Ireland - France opportunity.

 

The Rosslare - Cherbourg roundtrip due to start on Mondays ex Rosslare and Tuesdays ex Cherbourg on 18/19 March will now begin next week 18/19 January. So far only next week’s sailings are on the timetable but it will continue if there is a demand.

 

The CAP FINISTERE will initially operate the sailing as she is due to be the Rosslare based ship whilst the CONNEMARA covers for the overhaul of the PELICAN (18 January to 28 January) and then her own maintenance period. CONNEMARA returns to Rosslare with her sailing from Ireland on 17 February. She will then take over the trip to Cherbourg as well as her normal Bilbao sailings.

 

CAP FINISTERE’s first sailing to Ireland is from Santander on 18 January, after her recent drydock. She then starts Rosslare - Santander from 20 January.

[Gareth]

Now there is actual real news - early start to Rosslare-Cherbourg.  See this thread in News:

 

[lg12]

Interesting article (in French) giving some traffic figures on the post-Brexit situation in Normany's main ports. Cherbourg expects to handle some 8000-10000 trucks this January, compare to a normal yearly traffic of 35000. Cherbourg, Dieppe, Le Havre, Ouistreham are all however seeing greatly reduced UK traffic. The article also mentions the previously discussed rumours about a future Le Havre - Ireland service (but not necessarily Brittany Ferries operated).

https://www.lesechos.fr/pme-regions/normandie/brexit-le-succes-irlandais-de-cherbourg-donne-de-lespoir-aux-ports-normands-1280895

 

 

Edited January 23 by lg12

[David Williams]

22 hours ago, lg12 said:

Interesting article (in French) giving some traffic figures on the post-Brexit situation in Normany's main ports. Cherbourg expects to handle some 8000-10000 trucks this January, compare to a normal yearly traffic of 35000. Cherbourg, Dieppe, Le Havre, Ouistreham are all however seeing greatly reduced UK traffic. The article also mentions the previously discussed rumours about a future Le Havre - Ireland service (but not necessarily Brittany Ferries operated).

https://www.lesechos.fr/pme-regions/normandie/brexit-le-succes-irlandais-de-cherbourg-donne-de-lespoir-aux-ports-normands-1280895

 

 

To respond to this (even though it is in the wrong thread !).

I think that it is far too early to predict the future of the UK / France traffic in Normandy ,it is clear that it has dived this month - I suspect that the Government Charters will stop soon.

Given the uncertainty of tariffs, a lot of companies on both sides of the water were stocking up in December and there are some delays in shipments whilst companies are getting to grips with the new processes. Covid is also changing things with manufacturing delays on both sides.

I don't think that volumes will be clear until next year once covid is under control and all industries are back to normal. I personally think that there will be structural changes and an accelerated move to unaccompanied freight (trailers, containers etc..) and less just in time transportation. In the short term, I can't see why a European driver would willingly cross the channel with paperwork delays on both sides plus the French insistence on a test.

ps once the Government charters stop. maybe we will see a return to the mixed Le Havre / Cherbourg timetable.

Edited January 24 by David Williams

[lg12]

There was a Tweet by the Irish Embassy in Paris about the growth of ferry services between Ireland and France. Le Havre was included in the list of ports.

Right how Le Havre is probably the only French port with historic ties to Ireland, which has not benefited from the Brexit/COVID developments.

P&O is often mentioned as the most likely operator. What ships could they use? The Prides seem to be unsuitable.

[RickOShea]

38 minutes ago, lg12 said:

There was a Tweet by the Irish Embassy in Paris about the growth of ferry services between Ireland and France. Le Havre was included in the list of ports.

Right how Le Havre is probably the only French port with historic ties to Ireland, which has not benefited from the Brexit/COVID developments.

P&O is often mentioned as the most likely operator. What ships could they use? The Prides seem to be unsuitable.

As I mentioned in the wrong place earlier but I wanted to reply to a post by @LHCity - there was a post on Facebook today from a Rosslare source saying that port workers were claiming a P&O service with 2 ships would start in 2 weeks.

Based on a variety of things I'm really not ruling it out...though stress it is rumour only at this stage.

As for ships, I'd go for NORBAY and NORBANK - Dublin - Liverpool could cope with STENA FORECASTER and CLIPPER PENNANT at current traffic levels.

[LHCity]

10 hours ago, RickOShea said:

As I mentioned in the wrong place earlier but I wanted to reply to a post by @LHCity - there was a post on Facebook today from a Rosslare source saying that port workers were claiming a P&O service with 2 ships would start in 2 weeks.

Based on a variety of things I'm really not ruling it out...though stress it is rumour only at this stage.

As for ships, I'd go for NORBAY and NORBANK - Dublin - Liverpool could cope with STENA FORECASTER and CLIPPER PENNANT at current traffic levels.

As a reminder that among the rumors or press articles, Brittany Ferries plans to assign a dedicated ship (which ship ?) and another company wishes to open a route from Le Havre ti Ireland. According to my local sources, it would be P&O. According to the local press, Brittany Ferries is interested in Rosslare or Cork. The question I ask myself is whether P&O could do a Le Havre / Dublin ? It does not seem equivalent in time / distance to a Dunkirk / Rosslare ?

Could Pride Of Bruges and Norsea be suitable vessels for this type of route ?

 

Edited February 3 by LHCity

[jonno]

10 hours ago, RickOShea said:

As I mentioned in the wrong place earlier but I wanted to reply to a post by @LHCity - there was a post on Facebook today from a Rosslare source saying that port workers were claiming a P&O service with 2 ships would start in 2 weeks.

Based on a variety of things I'm really not ruling it out...though stress it is rumour only at this stage.

As for ships, I'd go for NORBAY and NORBANK - Dublin - Liverpool could cope with STENA FORECASTER and CLIPPER PENNANT at current traffic levels.

Seems strange to consider P&O's chartered vessels would remain on their established route whilst their established vessels would relocate to cover a short term route?

 

[Paully]

The won`t be using the Pride of York/Bruges they`ve made all the crews redundant. They`re on the the way to the beach, sooner or later.

[LHCity]

TRADUCTION : Now that it is more complicated for truckers to get to Ireland via Great Britain, they are taking the direct ferry from Cherbourg in large numbers. Le Havre would also like to reopen its connection with Dublin.

[RickOShea]

1 hour ago, jonno said:

Seems strange to consider P&O's chartered vessels would remain on their established route whilst their established vessels would relocate to cover a short term route?

 

Not really actually.

Demand on Liverpool - Dublin is unaccompanied right now and Ireland - France demand is for accompanied.

[RickOShea]

1 hour ago, LHCity said:

As a reminder that among the rumors or press articles, Brittany Ferries plans to assign a dedicated ship (which ship ?) and another company wishes to open a route from Le Havre ti Ireland. According to my local sources, it would be P&O. According to the local press, Brittany Ferries is interested in Rosslare or Cork. The question I ask myself is whether P&O could do a Le Havre / Dublin ? It does not seem equivalent in time / distance to a Dunkirk / Rosslare ?

Could Pride Of Bruges and Norsea be suitable vessels for this type of route ?

 

I'd be shocked if BF open Le Havre - Ireland now in view of the moves now in place.  It's confirmed that they looked at it though.  But who knows right now....  Two weeks ago, I would have ruled out the ARMORIQUE doing Rosslare/Cork - St Malo/Roscoff.   I wouldn't dismiss BF on Le Havre - Ireland, just think it's unlikely.

If P&O do start sailing to Le Havre (and again let's be clear we are still in rumour territory even if there is a lot of evidence building that there might be something in it) I think it's almost certain to be the NORBAY and NORBANK.  Based on their speed, I think Rosslare is essential if a nightly departure was to be offered from both ports.   The Hull - Zeebrugge ships are too expensive to run, don't have (operational) crew any longer and probably wouldn't satisfy class conditions for such an open route.

 

 

[VikingVoyager]

1 hour ago, RickOShea said:

and probably wouldn't satisfy class conditions for such an open route.

Are we sure that Norbay / Norbank would though?

[LHCity]

1 hour ago, VikingVoyager said:

Are we sure that Norbay / Norbank would though?

The scenario that I imagine if BF ever had to do it, is to reduce the offer to Ouistreham (or 3 departures per day is no longer justified), to transfer NORMANDIE to Le Havre / Portsmouth and consequently to send COTENTIN to Le Havre / Rosslare.