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Poole to Tangier ferry link


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It is interesting to read the contrasting views on this subject and I can see the arguments. But I just have a bit of a gut feeling that drivers of accompanied freight might not find the prospect of a medium speed second hand RORO on that sort of route altogether attractive.

One of my interests is Naval history and there are many acounts of really foul weather conditions between the UK and Gibraltar. A classic example is the loss of HMS Captain in 1870.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Captain_(1869)

Plus of course, after the battle of Trafalgar, many of the survivng ships were wrecked in a storm. On a personal note, back in 1964 at the age of 16, I was aboard the school, ship MS Devonia of 12,000 tons en route to Tilbury after a Mediterrranean educational cruise (2 weeks for £49). We ran into a force 8 off Northern Spain and the ship was hove to for 12 hours.

Being inventive schoolboys, when we were finally allowed back on deck we used deckchairs to slalom down the foredeck as the ship rose and fell until the Captain put a stop to it.

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1 hour ago, RickOShea said:

Again I really don't want to get into discussing the suitability of people for a venture (either to cast doubt or indeed to endorse) but one thing none of us know is whether the venture has engaged the services of those who have the knowledge they don't.  So you can have a situation where the people concerned do indeed have zero experience of ship operation but have people who do know advising them.  This is simply why I don't cast doubt on stuff without having an intimate knowledge of what is going on behind the scenes

Exactly. A lot of people that buy our Football Clubs know very little about Football but they employ people that have the knowledge to run it on their behalf.

I think some on here still are still clinging on to the memories of the Euroferries fiasco and thinking this could be the same again. I personally don't mind either way whether it happens or not but if it keeps people in jobs then any extra business for Poole should be considered as good business

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5 hours ago, chid679 said:

Exactly. A lot of people that buy our Football Clubs know very little about Football but they employ people that have the knowledge to run it on their behalf.

I think some on here still are still clinging on to the memories of the Euroferries fiasco and thinking this could be the same again. I personally don't mind either way whether it happens or not but if it keeps people in jobs then any extra business for Poole should be considered as good business

Correct and even Euroferries....

I don't know the ins and outs but an ex supplier of mine provided services to Euroferries and they paid all their bills.  I think they were almost there but not quite.

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4 minutes ago, BobCrox said:

Showing my ignorance but what is the precise difference between a Ferry, a Ro-Ro Ferry and a Ro-Ro ship?

Fascinating question.  A ferry is a vessel that provides a regular connecting service between A and B.  It may carry passengers or freight or both.  It doesn’t have to be roro - any passenger-only ferry, for example, is not roro.

A roro ship is one that uses drive on - drive off as a loading mechanism.  It may have other loading mechanisms as well, such as craning, but if it has a drive on-drive off facility then it is a roro.  A roro ship may or may not provide a regular ferry service - the big car carriers, for example, may undertake passages to order rather than a scheduled ferry service.

So a roro doesn’t have to be a ferry and a ferry doesn’t have to be a roro.  But one would imagine that a roro providing a ferry service would legitimately be called a roro ferry! 😁

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15 hours ago, chid679 said:

Exactly. A lot of people that buy our Football Clubs know very little about Football but they employ people that have the knowledge to run it on their behalf.

I think some on here still are still clinging on to the memories of the Euroferries fiasco and thinking this could be the same again. I personally don't mind either way whether it happens or not but if it keeps people in jobs then any extra business for Poole should be considered as good business

Not just Euroferries, but what happened to High Speed Ferries who were meant to be starting a ferry service from Weymouth.  Never materialised did it.  Euroferries COULD have got their mitts on Liberation, they were after her long before Condor.  

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50 minutes ago, colin said:

I suspect Seabourne Freight saga is still in our minds, though that was a nonsense primarily politically caused.

Believe it or not there was credibility there.  Very credible people who were paying their way.  The suspicion was that some large hauliers were promising the venture big money and almost certainly gave it "seed funding" in order to force rates down at Eurotunnel, P&O and DFDS.  

The mainstream press didn't understand the point which was not that they didn't have ferries but the lack of suitable ferries.  Though I seem to recall quite serious negotiations to take three of those Tirrenia Van Der Giessen Ropaxes. 

It was all a bit of non-story as they weren't going to receive a penny of public money until they had a service in place.  Whether the government followed proper due diligence is another sthing and it is notable how the approach to Brexit capacity changed after this.

There are some of these "planned ferry ventures" that are blatant nonsense - Regina Seaways?  Then all of those crazy ideas that came up after P&O disappeared from Portsmouth.  But a lot of them are projects that just don't come to fruition.  I think the problem is that you really shouldn't say much publicly unless you are ready to hit the "go button" but people get carried away and start issuing press releases or creating websites and then problems arise.

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I know that there were serious and experienced people on the edge of that fiasco, but they were misrepresented by the principals whose interests lay elsewhere, hence the non event.

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1 hour ago, colin said:

I know that there were serious and experienced people on the edge of that fiasco, but they were misrepresented by the principals whose interests lay elsewhere, hence the non event.

As I say - the one unanswered thing from my knowledge of what went on...were haulage backers playing games ?

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18 hours ago, cvabishop said:

It is interesting to read the contrasting views on this subject and I can see the arguments. But I just have a bit of a gut feeling that drivers of accompanied freight might not find the prospect of a medium speed second hand RORO on that sort of route altogether attractive.

One of my interests is Naval history and there are many acounts of really foul weather conditions between the UK and Gibraltar. A classic example is the loss of HMS Captain in 1870.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Captain_(1869)

Plus of course, after the battle of Trafalgar, many of the surviving ships were wrecked in a storm. On a personal note, back in 1964 at the age of 16, I was aboard the school, ship MS Devonia of 12,000 tons en route to Tilbury after a Mediterranean educational cruise (2 weeks for £49). We ran into a force 8 off Northern Spain and the ship was hove to for 12 hours.

Being inventive schoolboys, when we were finally allowed back on deck we used deckchairs to slalom down the foredeck as the ship rose and fell until the Captain put a stop to it.

The Devonia - formerly a troopship MV Devonshire. I came back from Malta in 1961 on that. It took a week to get to Southampton, with a very brief stop at Gibraltar (1 hour ashore I think). As a kid I was able to get away with the class system on board and used to play in the First Class play room. There weren't that many children aboard so it probably didn't matter much. Not sure about travelling the Bay of Biscay, but the portholes were all screwed down tight one evening, so maybe it was a bit rough overnight and I didn't notice.

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3 hours ago, RickOShea said:

  I think the problem is that you really shouldn't say much publicly unless you are ready to hit the "go button" but people get carried away and start issuing press releases or creating websites and then problems arise.

Erm, isn't this the crux of the problem with this thread?

If this is known and understood, why give a rumour a headline and allow it to gather pace, why not simply sit on it until more concrete & relevant information is forthcoming?

Shipping enthusiast websites aren't national media vying for greater circulation numbers. There's no points to be gained by getting in there first. No one really cares.

Over the past two years there have been three or four 'major news topics' posted on these pages & elsewhere found to have had zero basis in fact due to a group or individual(s) jumping the gun.

BF cancelling the charter of Connemara when in reality she was being relocated... what damage could that have done if read by BF staff? 

Rosslare's big news was to announce a link with Le Havre (look at the ongoing fallout on these pages with that one) when again in reality it was to announce the aforementioned arrival of Connemara. Cork, Vigo, Plymouth which had local media, political & Irish port involvement. P&O ship sales, Rosyth and now this Morocco - Poole nonsense.

Discussing & debating in theoretical terms the viability or attraction of a particular route or port isn't the same as creating a new topical thread basically telling us 'New Route Starting' when in all reality at this point in time nothing could be further from the truth. 

I and others took offence by your comment regarding nameless faces trolling the internet.

I think most of us have far more important and interesting occupations to be getting on with.  None of us who responded created a thread with a banner title essentially turning the topic into click bait after a rumour piece in a specialised online magazine with a very limited circulation directed at a specific marketplace. I'd argue that you'd need to troll Google simply to find it in the first place.

We're not teenagers.

Most of on here use some form of their own name and most will always end a PM using their own name too. There is a lot of transparency from those able to discuss elements of their background.

Many of us come from engineering backgrounds, have university degrees, hold or have held senior, responsible positions in their chosen field, give lectures, have decades long close associations with individuals working within the shipping industry and naval architecture, those who regularly mix in the company of senior staff who work for BF & Irish Ferries, and those who have forgotten more about the sea's currents & tides than many of us will ever know.

For many of us, conducting our own research into any particular topic which interests us is a natural evolutionary process.

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On 07/03/2021 at 10:17, Gareth said:

Fascinating question.  A ferry is a vessel that provides a regular connecting service between A and B.  It may carry passengers or freight or both.  It doesn’t have to be roro - any passenger-only ferry, for example, is not roro.

Thanks for the answer.

I travelled on a regular ro-ro ship with no passengers years ago from Mestre/Venice to Pireus. It was built to fit the Corinth canal. After Pireus it continued to Jeddah. There were a pair of matching ships owned by a Greek/Saudi company called Saramat.

 

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  • 5 months later...
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Good luck to the route, United Seaways is now owned by another new company (Ocean Sovereign) which appears to be owned by a Moroccan.

They obviously think that it is worth a go.

I wonder if BF's new partner will develop other routes out of Poole for freight. 

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25 minutes ago, hhvferry said:

I've no idea why it was met with a torrent of doubts.

That would be down to it being showcased as a twice weekly service using one ship and also stopping at Lisbon rather than a single direct weekly sailing no doubt using a similar vessel to Pelican. The company address was also a bit dubious being a generic London PO Box letter drop.

I'll be pleased if it comes to 'fruition' but the African media still believe there's no money in it, that fuel a crew costs will be expensive and return sailings will be mostly empty.

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