Jump to content

What are the Options?


Recommended Posts

22 hours ago, colinschandler said:

I read  today that the Uk boffins are now looking at yet another newly discovered vatiant. Thr way things are going we will soon have more variants the a 1960/70's Ford Capri!

Yeah but covid variants will be more popular than a Caprii

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was an interesting article in the Sunday Times which suggested that Covid may have peaked.

The argument was that the Delta variant is so infectious that it is likely to block further variants.

The reason it is so infectious is that it achieves a maximum match with the cells in the body with its connections. Other variants are therefore unlikely to make much traction as they cannot achieve that degree of infection and will die away as being uncompetitive.

Vaccines are effective against the Delta variant so it too will lose its ability to seriously infect protected people and run out of 'customers'. It will still be out there though and if you are not vaccinated then you will still be vulnerable.

It is an interesting concept and food for thought. It also ties in with historical evidence that pandemics of this kind do eventually lose traction and cease to have their initial lethality.

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trying to think what the mighty might have up its sleeve to inflict on us next got me thinking.
If BoJo stops to think "crickey, I've given some perks to those jonny foreigners from the EU and US, how about we do the same for the Brits?" Better throw in a test or two to slow the blighters down. Hang on "is there VAT on the tests-call Rishi, the boy wonder" Loverley Jubleee. sorted.

Stu

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, David Williams said:

Maybe come September the UK will have given up on the idea of tests if you are vaccinated - one can only hope !

French TV yesterday said that, so far, the government has spent around 135€ per head of population on testing. A two-dose course of vaccines averages out at around 100€ per person. 

Ed

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a reminder that there are still issues with the Indian manufactured batches of the AZ vaccine.

I friend's daughter had been planning to fly to Poland this week for specialist tests and treatment for a medical condition which the NHS has been unable to diagnose. Right at the last minute she has discovered that one of the two jabs she and her partner had are from the Indian batches. These are still not approved by the European Health Agency although most EU countries do accept them. Unfortunately Poland is not one of them so the trip looks as if it will be cancelled at considerable expense. She thought she had checked and complied with all the travel requirements including those specified on the UK Government website. This merely states that vaccinations required by Poland must be approved by the European Medical Agency which Astra Zeneca has been. There is no mention that Poland is not accepting the Indian batches and checking for them.

Edited by cvabishop
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Indian-made version of the AstraZeneca vaccine is produced by the Serum Institute of India (SII). Up to five million doses of this version of the vaccine have been administered in the UK and are identifiable by the vaccine batch numbers (4120Z001, 4120Z002, 4120Z003) included on recipients’ paper vaccine cards and in the Covid travel pass available via the NHS app.

Ian

Curtesy the Telegraph

Edited by IanN
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

It starts with 6 letters and then a number, for example: PUNJAB1

🤣

Ed

 

and the seond dose PUNJAB2, i presume  😁👳‍♂️

Seriously though after my post, I checked on line and apparently the UK manufactured vaccine product is "Vaxzevria" -and the one on my own Pass thankfully. phew!  🤗 😌 👍

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, colinschandler said:

and the seond dose PUNJAB2, i presume  😁👳‍♂️

Seriously though after my post, I checked on line and apparently the UK manufactured vaccine product is "Vaxzevria" -and the one on my own Pass thankfully. phew!  🤗 😌 👍

The Indian vaccines that are used in the UK have the European branding so batch number is relevant if a Country is bothered and most are not.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, David Williams said:

The Indian vaccines that are used in the UK have the European branding so batch number is relevant if a Country is bothered and most are not.

Yes David thank you, I did later discover that on a further search but also with the Indian batch numbers. However I am grateful to Ian for posting the Indian batch numbers of ths forum which will be very helpful for all of us.

However I also read that Malta who were not accepting the Indian vaccine have now relented so perhaps others may.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

However I also read that Malta who were not accepting the Indian vaccine have now relented so perhaps others may.

Malta suddenly changed their mind when they realised it could impact significantly on their tourist industry. Poland and the other 'refuseniks' are obviously are less bothered. It's just EU bureaucracy, no good medical reason for not accepting these batches. The WHO is apparently quite happy with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

EU bashing?

No, not at all. As I understand it the EMA is part of the EU structure and it has not approved the Indian batches. Most EU states have done so at that level but Poland and some others have taken the EMA line. It is not clear why the EMA are not approving these batches as they are not the Covishield ones which are also not approved. Lots of stuff about this online if you do a bit of Googling. As I say, bureaucracy! It should and could have been resolved by now but it hasn't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

No, not at all. As I understand it the EMA is part of the EU structure and it has not approved the Indian batches. Most EU states have done so at that level but Poland and some others have taken the EMA line. It is not clear why the EMA are not approving these batches as they are not the Covishield ones which are also not approved. Lots of stuff about this online if you do a bit of Googling. As I say, bureaucracy! It should and could have been resolved by now but it hasn't.

The EMA don’t need to approve the batches/ factory as it is not needed for use in Europe. However the EU should have tried to persuade member states to allow vaccine certificates of any EMA/ WHO/ FDA etc approved vaccine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole thing turns not on what it is as the makeup of the Indian batches are identical to the UK/European manufactured ones, but the geographical location where the vaccine is made. Most EU countries accept that the Indian batches are biologically identical to the UK/EU ones but some are not on the basis of the EMA position. It's not clear whether the Indian batches will be accpeted or not so this situation could go on for a while.

Quote:

from https://qz.com/2026656/the-eu-digital-covid-certificate-excludes-the-covishield-vaccine/

According to the European Medicine Agency (EMA), the exclusion hinges on the fact that Covishield hasn’t obtained authorization to be marketed in Europeonly four vaccines have that. Given that Covishield’s focus has been on supplying India and other countries unable to obtain the other, more expensive, and hard-to-store shots, there’s no reason it would have sought this authorization previously.

 

Covishield is the biologically identical, but Indian-manufactured version of Vaxzevria, the European brand name for the AstraZeneca vaccine. However, each brand must supply its own efficacy data, and crucially, apply for its own authorization with the relevant authorities. The Serum Institute has not yet published complete trial results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The issue of vaccine certificates needs sorting, however the WHO is not interested as it doesn't believe in them.

The EMA approval, as said, is marketing approval for use within the EU and is a rigorous process, it is only needed for vaccines that will be used in the EU and that will reduce to a small set over time. The UK and others are likely to approve other vaccines (think Novavax) etc.. In addition people will help with clinical trials etc..

It is fundamentally wrong to only recognise a subset of vaccines for use on vaccine certificates, It would be nice if the WHO would take a lead on this !  Failing that, it would be helpful  for the EU to produce a better recommendation,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, David Williams said:

The issue of vaccine certificates needs sorting, however the WHO is not interested as it doesn't believe in them.

The EMA approval, as said, is marketing approval for use within the EU and is a rigorous process, it is only needed for vaccines that will be used in the EU and that will reduce to a small set over time. The UK and others are likely to approve other vaccines (think Novavax) etc.. In addition people will help with clinical trials etc..

It is fundamentally wrong to only recognise a subset of vaccines for use on vaccine certificates, It would be nice if the WHO would take a lead on this !  Failing that, it would be helpful  for the EU to produce a better recommendation,

Is it any wonder that this planet is having difficulty with Climate Change?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many years did we manage without vaccine certificates? Slippery Slope? Do we need them to travel on BF? 

Bad idea it will cause discrimination. We will then need a certificate to say we do not need to have a vaccine or vaccine certificate for medical reasons. 

By all means have the vaccine but to have to prove it for Ferry travel or entry to the local pub, supermarket I am not sure it's a good idea 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, IanN said:

How many years did we manage without vaccine certificates?

Never.

https://www.passporthealthglobal.com/en-gb/vaccinations/yellow-fever/

The vaccine is highly recommended for travel to yellow fever endemic regions. If a yellow fever vaccine is required to enter a country and you have not received it or do not have an International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis documenting your vaccine, you may be detained or be forced to pay for another vaccination. Be prepared before you go by visiting your local Passport Health clinic!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, BobCrox said:

Never.

https://www.passporthealthglobal.com/en-gb/vaccinations/yellow-fever/

The vaccine is highly recommended for travel to yellow fever endemic regions. If a yellow fever vaccine is required to enter a country and you have not received it or do not have an International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis documenting your vaccine, you may be detained or be forced to pay for another vaccination. Be prepared before you go by visiting your local Passport Health clinic!

Where did I mention another country? 

I don't need a Yellow Fever certificate to enter a football match nightclub or any other mass event in the UK. Yellow Fever is a problem in certain areas but I do not believe BF go any where near. 

Coronavirus is here to stay so by definition if we accept a vaccine passport then that will be here to stay so effectively a digital ID card 

Edited by IanN
addition
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

How many years did we manage without vaccine certificates? Slippery Slope? Do we need them to travel on BF? 

They should only need to be temporary in respect of Covid whilst there is still a substantial disparity in vaccination levels between countries and while a substantial proportion of the population within a country remains unvaccinated. Once things have more or less levelled up then the need is no longer there. It will happen eventually.

The danger of course is that they will acquire an inertia of their own.

It is obviously a different situation with something like yellow fever which is endemic to specific regions unlike Covid 19 which is worldwide.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...