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Electric cars - recharged


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Sorry, but it would appear the first thread ran out of power last night and someone forgot to plug the cable in. Anyway I've just bought a bulk pack of Duracell and am raring to go again. 

Ed

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I`ve got the Hyundai Hybrid (Hev) which suits me down to the ground...Whilst the plug in Hev would obviously give me more `free` miles, the cost of it in the first place simply outweighs the advantages. The thought of being dependant on chargers (long queues and slow refill times) fill me with unease. I don`t see many round where I live at all, so the back up of a petrol engine ticks my boxes. I prefer the Hyundai for their reliability (up there with Toyota and Honda now) and what you get for the money. Horses for courses though.

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Hi, I'm running a Hyundai Ioniq PHEV as a fleet company car. Great car and I am really trying to be "green" and charging "on road" where possible. Regular charge at home but charging at public charge points (pumps) is so difficult and inconsistent - sometimes they work, sometimes not and if they do they can already be occupied as in motorway service areas for example.

I'm running with 2 RFID cards and 5 apps at the moment to locate / use EV pumps.

Driving EV's is great but there is a lot of work to go before its viable.

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I have an MG HS PHEV. I think things very much depend on how you use your car and the local infrastructure which varies enormously in different parts of the country. The majority of my trips are no more than 35 - 40 miles mostly round towns so I can usually complete them in EV mode only. I like to only drive in towns using electrical power so if I need to I set the ICE to self charge the battery at 100% so I always have battery power when I'm in town. For me a full EV is a non starter. Like others have said there is no way I want to spend hours looking for a working charger. Certainly in Dorset the provision of chargers outside of the odd large town is almost non existant.

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Dorset chargers are skewed as it has just over 180 registered public chargers, but 41% are located in Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole (May 2021). Dorset are in the process of rolling out 47 new charger locations in 2021 in other parts of the county, not sure how many are in the figures above as only started in March. For reference in the UK there are public chargers at 15403 locations, with 21120 chargers (ZapMap) and for comparison 8.380 petrol stations (HMG).

As someone who has driven over 20,000 miles (UK and France) in 1 BC (Before COVID), I have had little trouble finding chargers using apps like ZapMap, Plugshare, PlugSurfing and ABRP, and only had issues a few times in many charges, mainly with one being a charger U/S so just went to next one along. I am not sure how it is much different to finding a petrol station. Many of the chargers in the apps indicate charger status too - for example at time of writing, I can see the Ionity charger at Aire de Longue la Couaille has 4 charging positions with one occupied, and the Pod Points at County Hall, Dorchester are all unoccupied.

However, much has been learned through experience and some networks are far better than others. The worst in the UK is ecotricity, who are expensive with  M&R issues, and we do not even look to charge at them now. The best network by far is the Tesla SuperCharger network as this gives exclusive use to 15% of the UK charging networks that other cars cannot access at reasonable cost.

In France to save collecting extra charging apps and for ease, we use PlugSurfing and Chargemap with RFID fob/card. Both work in the UK as well, and there are UK specific versions like Octopus Energy's Electric Juice, but here we tend to use the native network / apps we know are more reliable and cost effective.

Going from St Malo to near Sarlet (around 380 miles / 600 km) we stopped once to charge for about 20 minutes, but stopped at 2 other places to stretch legs so could have charged there too. Human factors are the limit rather than battery and topping up at all three is certainly possible. Total charging cost for the whole journey was under 20€. One thing you can find in France is charging by time at the charger, not the electricity used; this can be a fixed time eg 1 hour with a flat fee and then a rate per minute after that. Lidl still has free charging I believe.

It would have been very useful to have chargers at the ferry terminal, they could be put next to some of the boarding lanes to top up just before boarding so you can drive off almost fully charged.

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3 hours ago, Shipping Forecast said:

41% are located in Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole

Those are for mobility scooters, not cars. 🤭

 

3 hours ago, Shipping Forecast said:

One thing you can find in France is charging by time at the charger, not the electricity used; this can be a fixed time eg 1 hour with a flat fee and then a rate per minute after that. Lidl still has free charging I believe.

Thanks. I'll check that locally.

ED

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4 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Those are for mobility scooters, not cars. 🤭

 

 

ED

You should come and visit us again. You've clearly not been since the 90's we're all electric scooters and bikes now, rarely a mobility scooter in sight these days.😀

 

 

7 hours ago, Shipping Forecast said:

Dorset chargers are skewed as it has just over 180 registered public chargers, but 41% are located in Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole (May 2021). Dorset are in the process of rolling out 47 new charger locations in 2021 in other parts of the county, not sure how many are in the figures above as only started in March. For reference in the UK there are public chargers at 15403 locations, with 21120 chargers (ZapMap) and for comparison 8.380 petrol stations (HMG).

 and the Pod Points at County Hall, Dorchester are all unoccupied.

 

It would have been very useful to have chargers at the ferry terminal, they could be put next to some of the boarding lanes to top up just before boarding so you can drive off almost fully charged.

I'm not sure towns are really the problem it's more cross country that worries me. With regard to the County Hall Pod Points you appear to have posted at about 3am on a Sunday perhaps their availability is not that much of a suprise.

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2 hours ago, Rattler43 said:

it’s more cross country that worries me

I am not sure how cross country in an EV is any different to any form of motive transport. Surely drivers make sure that they have enough fuel before setting out so they can reach the next place with a refuelling station for whatever fuel they are using. Charging points are much closer together than petrol stations too and in an emergency any 3 pin plug will do to get you going again.

2 hours ago, Rattler43 said:

With regard to the County Hall Pod Points you appear to have posted at about 3am on a Sunday perhaps their availability is not that much of a suprise.

I was not indicating there are free chargers at that time of day, but demonstrating it is possible to see the charger’s use remotely before you may need to use their services. I can see at the moment that the free chargers in Dorchester are not in use at Tesco, but the chargeable unit in Poundbury is half occupied.

Likewise in Place de la Liberation, Sarlet le Caneda two of the four chargers we can use are occupied or the chargers on side the harbour at Concarneau are occupied but on the side there are free. The charger for our car at the Quai Saint-Vincent is occupied but there is another free one round the corner.

Software is in development to book chargers ahead based on your journey progress with rerouting to another charger nearby automatically if necessary, something that should have been programmed from the start, which will negate the whole waiting issue.

Again, recharging an electric car is not like ICE cars where you ‘fill up’, it does require a different way of thinking. With EVs on long journeys you tend to only recharge to get you to the destination and recharge properly there at cheaper rates. See France 20 minutes example above.

You can recharge fully but that would have extended the time and costs more. It is about combining activities with recharging, like visiting the loo, shopping, stretching legs etc, instead of sequentially going to loo etc then refuelling the car. The actual time spent is not that much different. On a couple of occasions in the summer, the loo wait times at Aires have exceeded the desired charge times. Ditto parking if you want to top up as illustrated above.

Above I should have also said in France many off main road chargers are also subsidised or even free, so if you can use those instead of the more expensive Ionity etc chargers found in Aires.

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Can I ask something regarding the kwh indicated for the different models? Is it simply the case that a car with 50kwh will take you further than 40kwh or does how the car actually use that power (plus regenerative breaking if available) make a difference? 

Ed

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3 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Can I ask something regarding the kwh indicated for the different models? Is it simply the case that a car with 50kwh will take you further than 40kwh or does how the car actually use that power (plus regenerative breaking if available) make a difference? 

Ed

Think of it like a gallon of fuel - you'll go further in a vw polo than a range rover.

 

People seem to be slow to look at the efficiency between different electric vehicles, physics still dictates larger/heavier cars will require more energy to move!  Seems odd to me as you wouldn't buy a ICE car without checking the Mpg. I'm sure an industry standard metric will eventually appear.

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4 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Can I ask something regarding the kwh indicated for the different models? Is it simply the case that a car with 50kwh will take you further than 40kwh or does how the car actually use that power (plus regenerative breaking if available) make a difference? 

In short how the car uses the power is a major part of the efficiency equation.

More comprehensively, the battery capacity kWh to range within car families is directly related, but not necessarily between different car ranges which then heavily depend on the differences in efficiency of the battery and motor. Also the battery capacity is not the useable battery capacity. As example compare the Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus, Audi e-Tron and Renault Zoe ZE50 R110, all chosen for similarity in total battery pack size -

The Tesla Model 3 has a battery pack capacity of 55 kWh, useable battery of 50 kWh, with a WLTP range of 278 miles.

The Audi e-Tron 35 has a battery pack capacity of 55 kWh, useable battery of 52 kWh, with a WLTP range of 212 miles.

The Renault Zoe ZE50 R110 has a battery pack capacity of 54.7 kWh, useable battery of 52 kWh, with a WLTP range of 245 miles.

This gives the Model 3 an efficiency of 5.56 miles per kWh, the e-tron 4.07 miles / kWh and the Zoe 4.71 miles / kWh. The standard for comparison is Wh/mile (or km) which does not seem as intuitive as miles / kWh, but for completeness - Model 3 175 Wh/mile, e-tron 245 Wh/mile and Zoe 210 Wh/mile. Sometimes you will see empg or equivalent miles per gallon, however this can be misleading, depending on the equivalence used and calculation method.

So when looking at an EV, battery capacity will give you an idea of range you do need to compare the efficiency as well; the Tesla and Audi are similar prices but the Tesla gives you 20% more range for 4% fewer electrons. The Zoe is around £12k cheaper so that trade off in efficiency could be worth it. 

Tesla have been the champions of efficiency for a long time, some companies are catching up like Hyundai/Kia (same platform) and Ford, while others are further behind. Eventually as it is much easier to copy cell chemistry, electric motor construction etc, electric cars will all level up to each other in terms of efficiency, the build quality will be very similar due to automation / robotisation, and the differentiator will be the software package / autonomous driving capability and interior design.

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On 06/06/2021 at 23:36, penguin said:

you wouldn't buy a ICE car without checking the Mpg

I do. I buy vehicles I like, I'm not interested in Mpg. for me it has to start everytime, stop rapidly when I brake hard and protect me. I want a car that's not made of tin foil or carbon fibre and is going to stop on a motorway not melt the brakes at the back of dinner plate sized wheels.

I was in an 11 car pile up in France back in 2014. My Skoda Fabia Vrs was hit in the rear at 110 k/ph ripping out the nearside rear suspension and pushed me over 3 metres up the road into the outboard motor of a boat, I opened the door an stepped out, the cabin hadn't sustained any damage. Further up the road was a Citroen C1 - great Mpg -  an Audi had gone through it like a wet paper bag... it wasn't pretty to say the least. I'll have that vision for life, FPOS trained or not.

For me it's too early in the game to buy an EV which is the only option of the two I'd consider. At the moment production & battery disposal emissions negate the on road advantage especially as most owners will only have them on a 3 or 4 year PCP... and pay through the nose for the privilege.

I'd never consider a hybrid as they produce the equivalent or more CO2 than a petrol engine - which produce more emissions than a diesel and the advertised suburban zero emission claim is a myth as the internal combustion engine never stops until you kill the power. A U.K. funded independent study last year proved that.

Our 130 bhp FWD diesel Transit produces the same level of CO2 g/km (179) as the new MHEV powered van the industry is raving about. The figures for the 130 RWD MHEV are 181 CO2 g/km. Why spend a near extra 7k on a similarly configured MHEV when it's not doing anything to reduce your carbon footprint every km or mile you travel?

The 170 diesel whether it be FWD or RWD produces 161 CO2 g/km and this engine is a beast of thing with over 400 nm of torque. A whole 20g less CO2 every km you drive than the less powerful 130 Hybrid.

Yesterday's announcement shows me we have bigger fish to fry in terms of having a cleaner environment. In the U.K. alone halting the use and sale of halogen bulbs will be the equivalent of taking 500,000 cars off the road.

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11 minutes ago, jonno said:

I do. I buy vehicles I like, I'm not interested in Mpg. for me it has to start everytime, stop rapidly when I brake hard and protect me. I want a car that's not made of tin foil or carbon fibre and is going to stop on a motorway not melt the brakes at the back of dinner plate sized wheels.

I`m with Jonno.I`ve got a Hyundai Hybrid. I`m not a greenie, nor particularly interested in it, for the sake of it. I bought it because I liked it, it had superior safety features over my previous Hyundai diesel. It was smaller and an all important automatic and above all at the right price. Its comfortable and poddles round town doing over 60mpg..Job done.

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19 minutes ago, jonno said:

for me it has to start everytime, stop rapidly when I brake hard and protect me

I agree. Generally electric cars are safer than their ICE equivalent as they have a very low centre of mass and well designed ones have additional space at the front, sometimes used sensibly for a frunk or froot, to provide extra impact protection. The battery mass also helps with energy absorption. These are part of the reason Tesla Model S and X have the best safety ratings from NHTSA (US) of any car as of writing. Nobody buys any super mini aluminium /plastic balloon because they value their lives.

19 minutes ago, jonno said:

production & battery disposal emissions

Battery technology has now evolved to a stage where the battery will outlast the average car. Many car batteries now will last 500k miles or around 40 years of average car use. There used to be a quest for the million mile battery but that will last cradle to grave. Most end of life EV batteries are being repurposed as cheap energy storage for buildings, small renewable plants, pleasure craft etc as they still have plenty of slower charge cycle life left. However apart from possible early Leafs, most modern BEVs are going strong, hybrids will go first due to mechanical wear. BEVs have the lowest depreciation of all cars with many retaining 80 to 90% of value years later.

End of second life, plants in Germany and the US, are able to recycle 98% of the materials, with better environment chemical and osmosis methods coming online currently to reduce ecological footprint further. Ironically it is oil derived plastics components that are currently not recycleable although like tyres, there are many people trying to unlock that gold mine. The biggest waste issue with batteries and recycling at the moment is consumer electronics, not EVs and this treasure trove of materials lying in drawers and rubbish tips is currently considered to be world's largest single resource for battery materials. Recycling this waste is obviously more environment friendly than digging the raw material out of the ground. Both will have to happen if the change to an electric future is to be realised.

ICE and battery production are not particularly environmentally friendly, but with EV's you do have the opportunity to use a less polluting, zero mission fuel source to power the vehicle, with reuse at the the end of vehicle life before recycling.

49 minutes ago, jonno said:

I'd never consider a hybrid

Again agree. If you go hybrid for being green, MHEVs (no plug), aka self charging hybrids (aka magic cars) as the manufacturers call them, are the worst Frankensteinian abominations for the environment and resource utilisation that could possibly exist. They use more resources to make, then are more uneconomical to use than pure ICE versions, with more to go wrong. Not only in the UK, but studies worldwide have shown this. Plug in version are slightly better, but only if they get charged via the plug which I believe 90% don't (German figures not UK but doubt much different). Hybrids are a way of meeting the environmental targets for the traditional car manufacturers, as well as selling you a car that requires more continual income earning work to be done on it.

There are still plenty of cases currently for not having an EV, for example if you tow, and then of course the initial price. EVs are also overpriced currently for what they are. However we are moving towards the tipping point led by China, where EVs will be cheaper than ICE, not only to run but buy as well and once that happens a cascade will start.

1 hour ago, jonno said:

Yesterday's announcement shows me we have bigger fish to fry in terms of having a cleaner environment. In the U.K. alone halting the use and sale of halogen bulbs will be the equivalent of taking 500,000 cars off the road.

Yes and no especially using that highly dubious stat, like empg it depends on the equivalence being used. Shutting coal plants has had the biggest impact to emission levels, however the next biggest polluting sector is all road transport which is increasing, followed by energy use in buildings, but every step is welcome.

For reference, all road transport vehicles in the UK rose 13% since 2011 and 30% since 2001. The biggest increase is in goods vehicles, especially vans for delivery. Delivery vans have a relatively consistent limited daily mileage, so would be ideal candidates to electrify first with inefficient local stop start cycles. Pure E vans account for 0.3% of all vans. BTW the 500k cars figure quoted by HMG includes all hybrids as well including the magic ones.

It also depends on what your priority is. Everyone wobbles on about carbon / CO2 but electrification of society brings a lot more - the ability to reduce pollution (SO2, NOX, NO2, particulates et al) locally and overall (not the same), the democratisation of energy and energy resilience, and more grandly reshaping the world's geo politics etc. Pollution alone is estimated to contribute to 30,000 deaths per year in the UK, or 800k in Europe, and who only knows in China.

3 hours ago, jonno said:

I'd never consider a hybrid

While we are talking transport and hybrids, the Victoria of Wight should have been all electric as should all IoW ferry replacements. Perfectly possible but Wartsila have diesels to sell 😉. If Norway can do a 139m 600 passenger, 200 car / 24 lorry ferry (Bastø Electric) on a 6.7 miles crossing (Portsmouth to Fishbourne), or 79m 360 passenger 120 car ferry (MV Ampere) on a 3.8 miles crossing (Lymington to Yarmouth) then why aren't we?

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Having kicked this thread off I may as well update you on my progress.

I've now tested a Peugeot 208e (good but too small for my needs I think) and a Mazda MX-30 (I'm seriously tempted but it may be a mid-life crisis kicking in). Both were new models and if I place an order this weekend for delivery before the end of June there is a 7,000€ eco-bonus available making a new car superb value. I've abandoned the leasing idea on financial grounds. Tomorrow I test a second hand Hyundai Kona (big battery model) to see how it compares. 

The three cars are all very different in terms of range, style and build quality.

I may decide to hold off for now but my current preference is for the Mazda. There is a rumour that next year the Mazda will be available with a range extender rotary engine which would completely change the situation and make it a much more flexible vehicle. However, buying one now and then trading up next year is also possibly a good plan as the current car will lose little of its value and be a good deposit.

Ed

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I have been scratching for the last couple of years on what to do when renewing cars. I use my car for both private and business miles and it amounts to over 20k per annum, mostly on motorways. I was tempted by a plug-in hybrid and had a Passat GTE on trial for a whole day. Great on electric drive around town but I was very disappointed by the fuel consumption on the motorway (around 40 mpg).

I reverted to buying a diesel but one with mild hybrid technology where a 48V starter-generator of 11kW provides some support to the diesel and allows lenghty periods of coasting with the engine cut out. I once managed over 2km on the A75 south of Millau with the diesel killed. With a gentle driving style I achieve 52-55mpg and that's for a 5 series estate with Xdrive. I calculated that for the price of the plug-in version I could keep this car and buy a second-hand Renault Zoe (for short trips) and still be better off.

As soon as an EV car meets my needs I will make the move to EV.

The EV car industry is moving very fast in terms of technology. Innovative electrode technologies and graphene based batteries are coming very soon. These techs will both increase the capacity of batteries, reduce drastically the charge times and also reduce battery weights.

http://www.nawatechnologies.com/en/home-english/

Another positive aspect of the ever increasing number of EVs will be their integration in a smart grid where the car batteries may be used to store surplus power and boost the grid on demand.

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2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Having kicked this thread off I may as well update you on my progress.

I've now tested a Peugeot 208e (good but too small for my needs I think) and a Mazda MX-30 (I'm seriously tempted but it may be a mid-life crisis kicking in). Both were new models and if I place an order this weekend for delivery before the end of June there is a 7,000€ eco-bonus available making a new car superb value. I've abandoned the leasing idea on financial grounds. Tomorrow I test a second hand Hyundai Kona (big battery model) to see how it compares. 

The three cars are all very different in terms of range, style and build quality.

I may decide to hold off for now but my current preference is for the Mazda. There is a rumour that next year the Mazda will be available with a range extender rotary engine which would completely change the situation and make it a much more flexible vehicle. However, buying one now and then trading up next year is also possibly a good plan as the current car will lose little of its value and be a good deposit.

Ed

Ed,

Personally I would go the Kona. I think you will be impressed with the range and power. Much bigger inside also

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4 minutes ago, crechbleiz said:

Ed,

Personally I would go the Kona. I think you will be impressed with the range and power. Much bigger inside also

Thanks for the advice,  but I don't think that's the only reason for buying such a vehicle. After looking at my driving habits over the last few years I have concluded the following approximate facts:

- 90% of my daily trips are under 100kms in length

- 5% are between 100 and 200kms (but often at the lower end of that scale)

- 5% are over 200kms (essentially weekend visits and holidays).

- My wife's habits are almost exactly the same and the final 5% are generally done as a family unit.

- Most local trips are under 5kms each way thereby possibly putting extra strain on our ICE cars.  We are increasingly being exploited as taxi drivers by our kids and that will probably double in the coming years.

- Half of my customers offer free charging on site and I'm there for between 3 and 6 hours most days. There are paid charging points close to the university plus next to my usual supermarket.

- I spend around 80% of my time in the car alone.

- The Kona will cost me 5€ more per month in insurance costs but the Mazda will save me 10€ on my current contract. 

- By taking an electric car every day I will no longer need a season ticket for the trains, saving 85€ per month which can be injected into a loan plus perhaps another 100€ per month in fuel savings.

- As parking becomes increasingly difficult, the only spaces available in town are often those in front of fast chargers.

So, there are lot of factors to take into account, and the range and power are certainly advantages, but given that we will be keeping our smaller and more efficient ICE car for longer trips, there may be an argument for choosing something less powerful but more comfortable which retains its value better.

Ed

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Thanks for the advice,  but I don't think that's the only reason for buying such a vehicle. After looking at my driving habits over the last few years I have concluded the following approximate facts:

- 90% of my daily trips are under 100kms in length

- 5% are between 100 and 200kms (but often at the lower end of that scale)

- 5% are over 200kms (essentially weekend visits and holidays).

- My wife's habits are almost exactly the same and the final 5% are generally done as a family unit.

- Most local trips are under 5kms each way thereby possibly putting extra strain on our ICE cars.  We are increasingly being exploited as taxi drivers by our kids and that will probably double in the coming years.

- Half of my customers offer free charging on site and I'm there for between 3 and 6 hours most days. There are paid charging points close to the university plus next to my usual supermarket.

- I spend around 80% of my time in the car alone.

- The Kona will cost me 5€ more per month in insurance costs but the Mazda will save me 10€ on my current contract. 

- By taking an electric car every day I will no longer need a season ticket for the trains, saving 85€ per month which can be injected into a loan plus perhaps another 100€ per month in fuel savings.

- As parking becomes increasingly difficult, the only spaces available in town are often those in front of fast chargers.

So, there are lot of factors to take into account, and the range and power are certainly advantages, but given that we will be keeping our smaller and more efficient ICE car for longer trips, there may be an argument for choosing something less powerful but more comfortable which retains its value better.

Ed

 

 

I mentioned my own case in an earlier post. My partner is using her VW Scirocco in a similar pattern to yours. An EV would definitely be better option and I took that excuse to visit car dealers to try a few EVs. I am planning to to visit VW to try the ID3.

The Peugeot e208 is attractive but feels cramped in the back. Her near sister the Corsa e is a better option in my opinion with its lower price.

Interesting second hand alternatives are the Kia eNiro (spacious and zingy), or even the e-Golf if you don't need long range.

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2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

test a second hand Hyundai Kona (big battery model) to see how it compares. 

You may want to consider the Kia e-Niro, same electric power platform as the Kona but larger car, more MX-30 than Peugeot 208. Slightly less efficient than the Kona (480 vs 452 km) as a bigger car, the e-Niro is a more practical family taxi car. Same good value retention for both.

12 minutes ago, crechbleiz said:

I use my car for both private and business miles and it amounts to over 20k per annum, mostly on motorways.

Having done similar annual mileage using a couple of EVs, there is only one company that would recommend for serious driving at the moment, which is Tesla. The availability (number of locations and chargers) plus simplicity of integrated charging at fast rates rates, up to 1600 km/hr on a near empty battery, compared to 350 to 500 km/hr for most BEVs, is so easy and makes a massive difference. Some others are catching up in charging rates and Porsche has faster but not many places can do that speed (or simplicity) outside the Tesla network. Tesla does come at premium though but are very good to drive.

Here is one for people considering range limitations. Tesla has just dropped the new extended range 500 mile (800km)+ Model S, sticking with the 400 mile (640km)+ range as there was very little demand for extra distance. This range would enable you to go from St Malo to Sarlet la Caneda without stopping / charging, arriving with a few percent battery and absolutely bursting I would imagine. Or another way to look at it, the loo breaks would be longer than the charging time needed to arrive with a comfortable percentage.

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3 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Battery manufacture is still an environmental no no.

This is a urban myth pushed by some media and the fossil fuel industry lobby. The production of fuels is hardly a green industry... Most current BEVs have a lower carbon footprint over their whole life cycle than their ICE counterparts.

Yes, the production of the BEV emits more carbon but in the long run the ICE vehicle carbon emissions overtakes the BEV by a considerable marging. This is becoming particularly true i  a country like the UK where the share of renewables is increasing.

To my knowledge, only a few organisations have made an honest assessment. One of them is the Swiss equivalent of the AA, the TCS, who have made this assessment most marketed models. https://www.tcs.ch/fr/tests-conseils/conseils/achat-vente-vehicule/recherche-auto-comparaison.php

 

 

 

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I have read many opinions on this and the general consensus seems to be that the assessments depend on where you are starting from. There seems to be no universal truth, only opinions dependent on your personal proclivities. At the moment, batteries are still inherently inefficient although improving.

In time things might become more obvious but not just yet. I have just replaced my house gas boiler with yes, another gas boiler which is several orders of magnitude more efficient than the old one. Maybe I could have put in an electric installation but that would have cost me an absolute fortune to run. So not a realistic alternative.

Heat pumps might be a future alternative but they are horribly inefficient. In the longer term atomic fusion might be the answer but that is still some way off yet.

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