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MY FERRY LINK - Latest updates

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Re: eurosewer

 

Could we keep news/discussion of the MFL/Eurotunnel issue on this one thread please - if nothing else for coherence.

 

 

 

What hurdle is that? Once they allowed Tesco to purchase T&S stores they showed just what their attitude to competition really was!

 

But isn't this a bit more political than shopping in Tescos ?

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Re: eurosewer

 

And DFDS/LD do not receive a single penny of public money while running motorway of the seas and Transmanche?

 

A different issue surely?, those subsidies are to keep a service in place (Newhaven) and motor way of the seas to get freight off the roads.

Eurotunnel should not be allowed to influence the short sea route, they already have enough influence with the shuttle service, which is doing very nicely.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree :)

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Re: eurosewer

 

A different issue surely?, those subsidies are to keep a service in place (Newhaven) and motor way of the seas to get freight off the roads.

Eurotunnel should not be allowed to influence the short sea route, they already have enough influence with the shuttle service, which is doing very nicely.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree :)

 

That was a tongue in cheek comment.;)

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Guest CaptainPugwash

Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

I wonder if my earlier comment about an eventual merger/ sale between PO and DFDS is not impossible.

 

In respect of the CC/OFT issues, there IS a precedent given POSL of some years back. I'll admit it unlikely for the moment, but I would not rule it out forever.

 

It might be the price that the OFT demands for "allowing" (like it has any choice against the mighty eu) FML/eurosewer to carry on. Wouldn't that be a thought- the OFT actually WANTING a merger...

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

P&O/DFDS that would be intresting, Though with P&O struggling a bit at the moment and not be in control of their own destiny (Dubai), think more of a DFDS take over ?:(

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Guest CaptainPugwash

Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

P&O/DFDS that would be intresting, Though with P&O struggling a bit at the moment and not be in control of their own destiny (Dubai), think more of a DFDS take over ?:(

 

That is really more what I am getting at. DFDS are pretty clued up- I've yet to see them make any serious mistakes, whereas PO POST Lord Sterling...

 

I would hate to see the name P&O disappear (and I suspect this will eventually be the case with the cruise market as a new generation of me me me are taking over from those who like travelling peninsular and Orient) but I foresee this happening whether we like it or not.

 

If I were a major shareholder in PO I would be seriously considering whether they can survive as a standalone company- at least under their current management. (and that doesn't detract from my recent praise about Dover- but one route does not a shipping conglomerate make)

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

Can't find anything else about it, but the MyFerryLink Wikipedia page states the competition commissioner ruling was overturned in January 2014 by MFL/Eurotunnel

 

Edit - found a brief press release on MFL website http://www.myferrylink.com/news/myferrylink-looks-forward-to-2014-and-bright-future-on-english-channel?packedargs=site%3DSF_Pax_Uk%26directLinkAssetId%3D1244124791036%26directLinkAssetType%3DSF_BlogEntry_Asset%26layoutType%3Dbypass

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

Can't find anything else about it, but the MyFerryLink Wikipedia page states the competition commissioner ruling was overturned in January 2014 by MFL/Eurotunnel

 

Edit - found a brief press release on MFL website http://www.myferrylink.com/news/myferrylink-looks-forward-to-2014-and-bright-future-on-english-channel?packedargs=site%3DSF_Pax_Uk%26directLinkAssetId%3D1244124791036%26directLinkAssetType%3DSF_BlogEntry_Asset%26layoutType%3Dbypass

 

:D. What that release doesn't mention is that the CC where told to re-investigate the result of which is due in April..

 

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent_business/news/stormy-seas-ahead--12529/

 

I love this bit:

 

“We are a French company, buying French assets and running out of a French port.

 

“When the Competition Commission stepped in we were surprised because we thought everything about it was French.

 

“It sounds like a French authority should have jurisdiction.”

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

:D. What that release doesn't mention is that the CC where told to re-investigate the result of which is due in April..

 

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent_business/news/stormy-seas-ahead--12529/

 

I love this bit:

 

“We are a French company, buying French assets and running out of a French port.

 

“When the Competition Commission stepped in we were surprised because we thought everything about it was French.

 

“It sounds like a French authority should have jurisdiction.”

 

All rather an imbroglio! MFL would have appeared to have overlooked the one aspect of their corporate activity which isn't French viz. they're sailing into a British port!

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

All rather an imbroglio! MFL would have appeared to have overlooked the one aspect of their corporate activity which isn't French viz. they're sailing into a British port!

 

If that's really the case then they are remarkably naive.

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Guest CaptainPugwash

Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

Probably an issue of distorted translation I'd have thought... Deliberate or accidental- who knows?

 

H-T I thought johnny foreigners had bought Dover from us... did that not happen in the end? Is the Port of Dover not now managed by monsieur le commendant?

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

Eurotunnel loses fight to keep Dover-Calais ferry service

 

 

 

The Competition and Markets Authority has issued a statement today provisionally backing an earlier decision by the Competition Commission that Eurotunnel should be barred from operating a ferry service from Dover.

 

Its decision comes after a review of whether circumstances had changed enough in the market for it to change its original decision.

 

In 2012, Eurotunnel bought the three ferries and related assets of the former SeaFrance and restarted a ferry service on the Dover-Calais route under the MyFerryLink brand.

 

But last June the Competition Commission ruled that by adding the ferries to its existing Channel Tunnel business, Eurotunnel would increase its share of the market to over half, which was likely to lead to the failure of a rival and, in turn, to higher prices.

 

Eurotunnel launched a legal challenge and the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) took over the case in April.

 

It found that although passenger growth on the Dover-Calais route has been more than expected, at least two of the ferry operators are still making substantial losses.

 

Alasdair Smith, CMA deputy panel chair and chairman of the Eurotunnel Remittal Group, said: "MyFerryLink is making losses and being funded by Eurotunnel. This is causing the current level of competition on the Dover-Calais route to be unsustainable and is likely to lead to the exit of a competitor.

 

"The interest of cross-Channel customers, both passengers and freight, will not be well served if Eurotunnel ends up as one of only two ferry operators in addition to owning the competing rail link. Eurotunnel's purchase of ferries means it now has over half the market and its share will rise further if competitors exit.

 

"It's much better to have three competing cross-Channel operators - Eurotunnel running the rail link and two independent operators on the ferry route.

 

"We have looked again at our proposed solution of banning Eurotunnel from operating ferries from Dover. We don't think any of the alternatives proposed to us will restore effective competition on the Channel."

 

He said a six-month notice period before the ban comes into effect will minimise disruption and uncertainty for ferry customers.

 

"The CMA will now consider the responses it has received to its provisional decisions before publishing its final decision in the remittal next month," he added.

 

A spokesman for Eurotunnel said the decision was wrong.

 

"Groupe Eurotunnel believes that, when stating that there has been no material change, the CMA simply seeks to justify the Competition Commission's original analysis, despite the change in the facts relating to the market: market growth has been far greater than the 2% predicted by CMA and DFDS continues to operate successfully in the market, whereas the Competition Commission's original decision was based on the premise that DFDS would rapidly be forced to exit the market.

 

"Groupe Eurotunnel believes that the CMA's preliminary decision is based upon an erroneous analysis of the significant changes in the cross Channel Ferry market since the Competition Commission's original findings relating to the market in 2012."

Tuesday, May 20, 2014

 

Original link

 

http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~_r~Amvn&w_id=9970&news_id=2011604

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

Probably a lot more to play out here but if the ruling states that overcapacity is a problem and bans use of the ships on the route, surely it should also require those who raised the complaint to be banned from adding capacity for a period of time?

 

I think this is going to end badly if the ruling does stand, with Eurotunnel ramping up shuttle services and going for further really aggressive pricing. Just switching the existing traffic on MFL services to the Tunnel would leave DFDS and P&O no better off.

 

The paths in the tunnel exist to increase train services, they just need to increase frequency. Sure, it may mean investment to service the increased use of trains but ramping up engineering capability opens the door to adding more locos and truck wagons to their fleet.

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

I do not believe that Eurotunel should be permitted to have any connection with ferry operations. I'm sure we all know how the French stopped the tunnel from going broke and are now prepared to do anything to achieve dominance on the Eastern Channel.

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

I understood that a condition of the purchase agreement of the former SeaFrance vessels was that Eurotunnel were not able to sell them within a five year period.

 

If they were stopped operating then I imagine this condition could be relaxed, or could we see the possibility of the Eurotunnel simply deploying the ships elsewhere? Extremely unlikely scenario for a multitude of reasons but just a thought!

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

I understood that a condition of the purchase agreement of the former SeaFrance vessels was that Eurotunnel were not able to sell them within a five year period.

 

If they were stopped operating then I imagine this condition could be relaxed, or could we see the possibility of the Eurotunnel simply deploying the ships elsewhere? Extremely unlikely scenario for a multitude of reasons but just a thought!

 

Probably covered by 'Force Majeure' although this must have been seen as a possibility at the time of acquisition and is more likely to have been written into the contract.

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

..................

 

H-T I thought johnny foreigners had bought Dover from us... did that not happen in the end? Is the Port of Dover not now managed by monsieur le commendant?

 

I rather think the Government is aware of increasing French domination of the Channel because weren't the Dover Harbour Board (Dover is a trust port -- like Poole) refused permission to privatise in order to raise funds for the Western Docks redevelopment project? The Minister considered there were other ways in which the DHB could raise the necessary funds. There were rumours that Dover Harbour could be sold to a consortium of French local authorities should there be privatisation quite apart from considerable local opposition. In the event DHB have scaled back their Western Docks project and now propose turning it into a freight terminal with a yacht marina on the east side of the Prince of Wales Pier. Sadly this will mean that Prince of Wales Pier will be lost to public use.

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

I understood that a condition of the purchase agreement of the former SeaFrance vessels was that Eurotunnel were not able to sell them within a five year period.

 

If they were stopped operating then I imagine this condition could be relaxed, or could we see the possibility of the Eurotunnel simply deploying the ships elsewhere? Extremely unlikely scenario for a multitude of reasons but just a thought!

 

Absolutely correct Andy, the five year "no sell" period is cast in stone although the management have stated that the ships will go into dry dock if the worse happens. I sincerely hope it doesn't; whatever one's views of the tunnel Berlioz and Rodin are in my opinion the two best conceived vessels on the short sea route, manned by the most professional and friendly crew by far, and given the shinanigans that went on when Seafrance collapsed the 600 jobs created/saved are worth fighting for.

 

I've had a quick peek at the French social media sites and this is being (quite rightly) perceived as the Brits destroying French jobs; not in the Euro, opting out left right and centre but still trying to be dictatorial. If the boot was on the other foot and the French were appearing to threaten genuine British jobs, just imagine the reaction.....

 

Let's just hope common sense prevails here; Dover - Calais is after all a link between the UK and France and deserves to have French manned ships on the route as long as they one day return to profit. A no from the Competition and Markets Authority will generate a backlash that could bring cross channel traffic out of Dover to a complete standstill. :(

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

Absolutely correct Andy, the five year "no sell" period is cast in stone although the management have stated that the ships will go into dry dock if the worse happens. I sincerely hope it doesn't; whatever one's views of the tunnel Berlioz and Rodin are in my opinion the two best conceived vessels on the short sea route, manned by the most professional and friendly crew by far, and given the shinanigans that went on when Seafrance collapsed the 600 jobs created/saved are worth fighting for.

 

I've had a quick peek at the French social media sites and this is being (quite rightly) perceived as the Brits destroying French jobs; not in the Euro, opting out left right and centre but still trying to be dictatorial. If the boot was on the other foot and the French were appearing to threaten genuine British jobs, just imagine the reaction.....

 

Let's just hope common sense prevails here; Dover - Calais is after all a link between the UK and France and deserves to have French manned ships on the route as long as they one day return to profit. A no from the Competition and Markets Authority will generate a backlash that could bring cross channel traffic out of Dover to a complete standstill. :(

 

I agree, Berlioz and Rodin when properly operated are superb ships. However don't forget that the DFDS Calais ships employ French crew, sailing on French flagged vessels. Most of the crew were ex Seafrance. If the CMA doesn't prevail then DFDS is expected to exit Calais, thus causing French jobs and French ships to go either way.

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

Funny, in the purest from the choice at Dover is go above the water or below the water. At one stage there was a period when the choice was pretty much P&O or Tunnel. Two monopolies and DFDS came along to offer a choice above the water and create a duopoly. They added competition but also capacity though I think the P&O fleet could have satisfied the demand on its own. MFL comes along and the duopoly is broken and this is seen as unfair. Stena buys capacity on some North Sea routes that DFDS run, I seem to remember but Eurotunnel buying it on MFL is bad ? It is a little troubling when competition authorities get involved......

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

You guys are more knowledgable than I am. Can you see the French letting this go or do you envisage some way that a French organisation at arms length from Eurotunnel will take over this service?

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

It'll go to the European Court i assume, so that will take a while. With France being pretty militant on a good day, the fact that their government is unpopular won't help keep the burning tyres off the roads! I'm not sure the Nord Pas region would do a Transmanche and take MFL over but I'd be surprised if some mechanism wasn't constructed to keep the SCOP going. If not, the concept of the SCOP takes a beating and that'll not go down well.

 

Of course, it is a regional matter so it may not manage to be escalated to crisis proportions but never say never. It would be ironic if the action by the ferry companies closed Calais and handed Eurotunnel a nice little windfall. Even more ironic if MFL wasn't blockaded and the others were........

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

If ultimately MFL have to leave Dover-Calais until 2017 and with extended periods in dry dock for conversion of the BF fleet said to last until 2017 perhaps it doesn't need someone with the intellect of Baldrick at MFL to come up with a cunning plan.;)

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

If ultimately MFL have to leave Dover-Calais until 2017 and with extended periods in dry dock for conversion of the BF fleet said to last until 2017 perhaps it doesn't need someone with the intellect of Baldrick at MFL to come up with a cunning plan.;)

 

The stumbling block for your cunning plan.is the suitability or lack of for any route that isn't dover calais/Dunkirk/boulogne, and maybe ostend ramsgate

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Re: My Ferry Link - Updates

 

The stumbling block for your cunning plan.is the suitability or lack of for any route that isn't dover calais/Dunkirk/boulogne, and maybe ostend ramsgate

 

What I had in mind was Portsmouth-Cherbourg. No need for cabins, relatively short crossing, reduced capacity during conversions to Caen and perhaps no freight service from Poole.

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