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PHC Open evening.


quincy

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

I was wondering why you were thinking that Smiler as things would appear to me going rather well at the moment. However even if the Ritz Hotel was transported to the port and customers were offered complimentary drinks served on a gold and diamond encrusted bar equipped with free caviar dispensers I bet I could find someone to complain.;)

 

 

Will try and get a ticket tomorrow, just seen this

 

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/10798043.Last_minute_rival_bid_for_600_berth__high_tech_marina_for_Poole_Quay_emerges_as_front_runner/

 

Yes, it will be a blow to PHC to find they've got competition regarding the big Poole Quay marina project. But I fear it's down to what I've called attention to repeatedly and that is PHC just don't get on with things. This environmental impact assessment currently underway is not actually required apparently but PHC thought it a good idea to have one! It seems it will result in a 1,000 page plus report! Maybe the Crown Estate has more confidence in a private company actually being able to achieve something!

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

The meeting next week should be very interesting what with LD and NA and the complications arising from the emergency with BARFLEUR. Now there's competition for the Poole Quay Boat Haven development. I wonder if MDL have been put up to it and, if they have, by whom. Hopefully attendees will hear to what extent, if any, it will derail PHC's other plans should their bid be successful.

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Yes, it will be a blow to PHC to find they've got competition regarding the big Poole Quay marina project. But I fear it's down to what I've called attention to repeatedly and that is PHC just don't get on with things. This environmental impact assessment currently underway is not actually required apparently but PHC thought it a good idea to have one! It seems it will result in a 1,000 page plus report! Maybe the Crown Estate has more confidence in a private company actually being able to achieve something!

 

I think it is churlish to suggest it is not required when dealing with a harbour with SSI areas. As an objection could be raised to any development on the basis of a failure to carry out an assessment, common sense suggests getting one done as a comprehensive approach to planning any development is a sensible approach. It would doubtless be more costly to undertake one at a latter stage than when the consultants are engaged at the start of the plan. Anyone involved in major schemes will no what the environmental considerations are now part of the process to one extent or the other, from disposal or recycling of materials to the protection of wildlife. Plenty of jobs have come to a stop due to some lesser spotted whatever being discovered !

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Part 2 will be port infrastructure, new marina and Swash Channel wreck and of course any queries HT may have that were covered at the meeting such as the port rail link.

 

Thanks G4rth for the report far more instructive that the method of production would even begin to suggest. Would I be right in thinking that this is the pre-end of ******** ?

 

But where are you HT ?

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Thanks G4rth for the report far more instructive that the method of production would even begin to suggest. Would I be right in thinking that this is the pre-end of ******** ?

 

But where are you HT ?

 

One rather thinks this Emissions Control Area thing is going to see a number of ships being transferred out of it to places where it doesn't apply, BARFLEUR could be one of them. I must say I hadn't really thought about it but fitting scrubbers to a ferry like BARFLEUR with twin exhaust uptakes could be technically rather challenging. I don't know about MONT ST MICHEL. Whether BARFLEUR would be replaced in these circumstances must surely depend upon how important BF consider the Poole-Cherbourg service to be. I suppose they could try to charter one of these Visentinis that Stena RoRo are going to convert to drive-thru configuration and which may have scrubbers installed at the same time. However the ferry wouldn't be doubledeck loading and discharging. But maybe further discussion of this ought to be carried elsewhere in these Forums.

 

Nothing is planned I understand in relation to doing anything to Poole's Ro-Ro 2 simply because BF and LD haven't asked for it and anyway, as we now know, Condor will be using it next summer.

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Whether BARFLEUR would be replaced in these circumstances must surely depend upon how important BF consider the Poole-Cherbourg service to be. I suppose

. But maybe further discussion of this ought to be carried elsewhere in these Forums.

 

 

Hasn't this been done for the last( how many I can't remember)few years!

How important do BF value the Poole-Cherbourg crossing?

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Hawser, the Visentinis can be adapted as double loaders, Stena have done it with Nautica. This is the reason she can't deputise at Fishguard, they use Nordica or Adventurer.

 

Would Wartsillas new tierIII engines be a better option for Barfleur?... Or maybe Cork to Spain for freight, out of the SECA area.

 

I mentioned the three they have bought and converting to drive thru and yes, apparently they are easy to fit emission scrubbers to also their MAN engines emit less anyway.. There is talk of two of them replacing the Cairnryan superfasts as they aren't cost effective on the route.

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Hawser, the Visentinis can be adapted as double loaders, Stena have done it with Nautica. This is the reason she can't deputise at Fishguard, they use Nordica or Adventurer.

 

Would Wartsillas new tierIII engines be a better option for Barfleur?... Or maybe Cork to Spain for freight, out of the SECA area.

 

I mentioned the three they have bought and converting to drive thru and yes, apparently they are easy to fit emission scrubbers to also their MAN engines emit less anyway.. There is talk of two of them replacing the Cairnryan superfasts as they aren't cost effective on the route.

 

Interesting Visentinis can be adapted for two tier loading and discharging, presumably at both ends. Obviously they are very adaptable ships. No wonder Stena RoRo are keen to own a few!

 

I believe it was pointed out at the meeting that there is such a thing as low sulphur fuel which would enable vessels like BARFLEUR to continue operating after emission controls come in. Unfortunately it is very considerably more expensive than the current stuff they burn and so has implications for a ship's profitability.

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Interesting Visentinis can be adapted for two tier loading and discharging, presumably at both ends. Obviously they are very adaptable ships. No wonder Stena RoRo are keen to own a few!

 

I believe it was pointed out at the meeting that there is such a thing as low sulphur fuel which would enable vessels like BARFLEUR to continue operating after emission controls come in. Unfortunately it is very considerably more expensive than the current stuff they burn and so has implications for a ship's profitability.

 

Referring to my trusty "Shippax Guide 2013" I see STENA MERSEY, STENA LAGAN and NORMAN ASTURIAS are given as two tier loading and discharging -- but only over the stern. I seem to remember COUTANCES, and maybe PURBECK also, used to do this at Poole and Cherbourg. Thus far NA doesn't seem to load and discharge this way at Poole, maybe because there's no doubledeck linkspan at Santander. But at this point I think we may be going off topic.

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

I think the only reason the Visenties are given as two tier loading is because the stern loading ramp has two "corridors" connecting to it, one leading to the pper deck, and one to the main deck.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottmackey/4644045941/lightbox/

 

cannot see them easily being converted into double deck loading as the stern has the opening for the ramp upwards, and the funnel deck casing, meaning a tightish Z bend to a shore-based loading ramp.

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

This Poole Quay Marina of 600 or 900 berths is a strange business. I don't resile from my view that PHC ought to demonstrate an ability to implement some of their impressive paper plans. I think that there may be doubts in some quarters as to whether they actually can in a reasonable timeframe and it's this that's prompted the MDL bid, of whom I personally had never heard. I suspect the PHC project may better for the Harbour all round while the MDL scheme will be limited to an out-and-out commercial facility, but details of this are awaited. Hopefully PHC have plenty of copies of the paperwork The Crown Estate have apparently lost!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Some outline of the MDL proposals are now begining to appear. It would seem that the Crown Estates have the final say with no appeal and do not have to consult local planning authorities or anyone else for that matter..

 

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/10881098.Outrage_as_plans_for_rival_marina_at_Poole_unveiled/

 

I would suspect Marina Development Ltd have been motivated to put in their rival Poole Quay Marina scheme by the suspicion that should PHC's plans eventuate there will be a mass exodus from Cobb's Quay to the new facility with a drastic loss of business for them. It seems boaters and yotties would prefer not to have to negotiate the two lifting bridges to get out into open water. One recalls PHC had no difficulty in filling all the berths in their Port of Poole Marina in the onetime shipping basin for Ro-Ro 1 -- for this reason. Quite possibly MDL have had feedback from their Cobb's Quay customers suggesting they ought to go for it maybe with the hope they'll get something done more quickly than PHC. So it will be very interesting to see what The Crown Estate's decision will be. However, these things being what they are, it wouldn't surprise me if they defer making a final decision to give time for further consideration in view of the opposition from PHC and stakeholders!

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Just been watching South Today about MDL wanting an island with a large car park in the harbour. Darn that!! (polite version) Swear filter wouldn't like my real reaction....

 

I think you'll find PHC's proposals also involve "bunds" and walkways though not a rival to "Boris Island" with 200 space car park on it! For details you need to go to the Master Plan on the PHC website where there are plans and diagrams etc.

 

Unfortunately the way the other PHC yacht marina, the Port of Poole Marina, effectively in the ferry port, quickly filled up with refugees from Cobb's Quay may have backfired on the Commissioners. Others seeing this have concluded, "We can do that!" MDL are the obvious ones to think they can as the owners of Cobb's Quay Marina. I see a local councillor at the recent stakeholders' meeting was suggesting that effectively MDL are trying to move Cobb's Quay to Poole Quay! I never did think building a yacht marina in the Ro-Ro 1 shipping basin a particularly good idea!

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

I'm not sure that all the boats in the Ro-Ro1 marina are refugees from Cobb’s Quay, most of the boats seem to be of a rather better standard than that.

 

Fortunately the original reports that the proposed MDL development would be able the bypass planning authorities would now appear to be incorrect. With their plans for a car park on an island in the harbour MDL appear to be putting forward a proposal designed to create the maximum amount of criticism possible. I can't help but wonder whether the current MDL plans are more of an attempt to put pressure on PHC over the running of the proposed master plan marina than any serious plan for an alternative.

 

I would agree that not all the boats in the Port of Poole Marina are from Cobb's Quay but the desire of many boaters to be on the seaward side of the two lifting bridges certainly helped fill it up. I seem to recall reading somewhere that PHC acknowledged this.

 

Gambits such as these MDL plans can serve more than one purpose at the same time. They could indeed be "a cunning plan" to put pressure on PHC to get on with it without their being totally serious but against that it seems The Crown Estate have indicated their plans are the frontrunners so surely MDL must be proceeding on the basis they could be asked to implement them. Further there is this view that PHC ought not to be devoting so much time and attention to yacht marinas. Sure they have a supervisory role as a result of their responsibilities re the environment and conservation but the actual design and construction of such facilities ought to be left to the private sector. Rather they should be concentrating on their core responsibilities which include the environment but also improving the commercial docks generally and the ferry terminal in particular.

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

Rather they should be concentrating on their core responsibilities which include the environment but also improving the commercial docks generally and the ferry terminal in particular.

 

Their remit is to look after the interests of all users and to develop the port in a manner that ensures a sustained future. They have already laid out their plans for the development of the commercial port and indicated that the role of the 'working port' is going to change from what is was. My understanding is that the leisure aspect development is in response to this change and a means to profit from the growth of the yacht market. A smart business develops the market that shows potential, doesn't throw money at an aspect of it that does not. I think the white elephants that are the vacant linkspans at Boulogne are a good example of what not to do.

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Re: PHC Open evening.

 

I can't see how you expect them to have a supervisory role (the master plan?) while at the same time suggesting that there should be a free for all over design and construction for their competitors. PHC receive no state assistance does that not make them a part of the "private sector" or are they excluded because they put their profits back into the harbour and not the pockets of directors and shareholders?

 

I am not expecting them to be anything. The situation rather speaks for itself. PHC have been developing plans for a large marina at Poole Quay for the last four years. Then all of a sudden at the last minute the owners and operators of another large marina elsewhere in the Harbour pop up with a rival scheme of their own for a Poole Quay marina -- which is preferred apparently by the authorities over the PHC scheme. Why?

 

On any interpretation this can only be seen as a very startling development. I am only suggesting reasons for it based on what I've heard. Otherwise I've no idea. PHC are an independent statutory body charged with running Poole Harbour. Maybe some with experience of trust ports elsewhere think that PHC devote too much time to yacht marinas and not enough to developing the commercial docks especially the ferry terminal. I am just an interested bystander with no personal responsibility for anything but clearly if The Crown Estate do decide in favour of Marina Development Ltd it will presumably mean a lot of wasted work on the part of PHC and staff. One interpretation of this is that someone is giving out messages. Thus we must now await the final decision but I wouldn't be surprised if it's not postponed.

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